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Creating the Windows 8 user experience

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Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#21

Post by rbanffy »

geetee wrote: post #5
bitwize wrote: post #4

Where Microsoft used to primarily focus on reducing memory consumption, now we are also laser-focused on improving battery life while still delivering a fast and fluid user experience. If Microsoft's previos focus on reducing memory consumption produced prior versions of windows, their new focus on increasing battery life should produce Windows 8 tablets that last a half an hour, tops. While I'm at it, in general, fu…

The memory reductions in 7 were pretty drastic. Give some credit where it's due.

Either that, or the memory increases in Vista were enormous and 7 brought it down to the kind of hardware that was available at the time.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#22

Post by sixothree »

rbanffy wrote: post #17

The fact is almost every HP, Acer, Dell and Toshiba will come with it pre-installed. There is basically no way it will be labeled a failure, even if nobody uses it. Remember Windows Vista was considered a great success ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2130290,00.asp ). When you buy a generic x86 computer (any non-Apple x86, that is) you have 3 choices of OS: you can leave whatever came on the machine (most like…

That's great for the desktop and notebook market. But now you have to convince people to buy Windows based tablets.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#23

Post by sliverstorm »

rbanffy wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7. You may not remember, but it was a growing problem before 7. They aren't saying here that they need to reduce memory consumption further; they are saying that they will do the same thing with battery life for Win8, that they did with memory for Win7.

> The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7 It's not tweaking memory management that solved the problem - it's that our computers started coming with 4 gigabytes of RAM.

I dunno, Win7 runs just fine on 1GB, and while XP can be installed on 128MB I'm not sure it will run that well.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#24

Post by drivebyacct2 »

rbanffy wrote: post #18
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as Windows 8 still includes full desktop mode, exactly how does any of this "abandon core revenue" logic make any sense? I get it, despite being in the tech world, geek-types remain incredibly resitive to change, but I'm tired of every tiny change that Google or Microsoft makes turning into "they're jumping the shark".

To be fair, people said the same about Gnome 3 and Unity and both work very well... But... If you are not a "geek-type", what are you doing on "Hacker News"?

I am a geek type, and one who accepts that technology changes and different != automatically awful.

The fact that everyone said the same thing about Unity and are now coming around to it, proves my point. I happen to love Gnome-Shell. I don't mind Unity and I think Win8 is great after you take some time to get used to it.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#25

Post by jasomill »

metrop0219 wrote: post #13

I think that people here are too pessimistic in general about Windows 8. Look at the current trends in computing. They're using those trends to influence this release. And I think that a lot of the design decisions (especially ones like "content over chrome" are really damn good). It's going to be super interesting to see how this thing is received by non-techy people come the holiday season.

True, but with the exception of tablets, the trends themselves sound problematic at best. To wit:

"Today, this is increasingly how we see many people use their devices, obsessively switching between different websites and programs on their PC and apps on their phone, checking to see if there’s anything new to see or do."

Just what I want my OS to facilitate. Perhaps the new OS should come bundled with an Adderall prescription?

Personally, I've found that the new Start Screen works well . . . once I've _removed all the tiles_. Similarly, one of my gripes with iOS has always been the home screen's tendency to remove the first page if it doesn't contain at least one icon. Surely I'm not the only one that launches things from Spotlight and the "double tap" bar 99.9% of the time? Organizing icons is shit work.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#26

Post by rbanffy »

sixothree wrote: post #22
rbanffy wrote: post #17

The fact is almost every HP, Acer, Dell and Toshiba will come with it pre-installed. There is basically no way it will be labeled a failure, even if nobody uses it. Remember Windows Vista was considered a great success ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2130290,00.asp ). When you buy a generic x86 computer (any non-Apple x86, that is) you have 3 choices of OS: you can leave whatever came on the machine (most like…

That's great for the desktop and notebook market. But now you have to convince people to buy Windows based tablets.

Microsoft OEMs will build them in order to qualify for discounts in desktop and laptop W8 licenses. And x86-based tablets will be able to go into classic mode (and JIT JavaScript) and run current x86 apps.

Why would anyone desire a W8 ARM tablet instead of a much cheaper (as in "you can buy two of them") Android-based one or an iPad is an excellent question, but we should never underestimate the power of advertising.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#27

Post by WiseWeasel »

rbanffy wrote: post #17

The fact is almost every HP, Acer, Dell and Toshiba will come with it pre-installed. There is basically no way it will be labeled a failure, even if nobody uses it. Remember Windows Vista was considered a great success ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2130290,00.asp ). When you buy a generic x86 computer (any non-Apple x86, that is) you have 3 choices of OS: you can leave whatever came on the machine (most like…

But if people delay purchases or go with competing products instead of buying an HP, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, etc. with Windows 8 pre-installed, then they've all got a problem on their hands.

Also, do you remember how long manufacturers were offering laptops with Windows XP pre-installed? I think you may still be able to buy one somewhere.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#28

Post by CamperBob2 »

courage wrote: post #16
CamperBob2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So effectively, Microsoft wants to create an OS that abandons their core revenue base while going after one that has rejected them repeatedly. Exactly. There may be some precedent for a successful OS built on a bifurcated strategy like what MS has outlined for Windows 8, but at 43, I'm not old enough to remember it.

I think DOS/Windows is a pretty good analog, and it was very successful.

An interesting point, but I'm not sure it applies. Microsoft knew they could never really commoditize computing with a command-line OS, so Windows was an absolute necessity. It was demanded by literally billions of customers, most of whom didn't even know they needed it. Even then, Windows took several years and three major versions before it really caught on.

These days, desktop computers are as ubiquitous as they are ever going to get, and few people are demanding a replacement for the traditional Windows UI on the desktop. Unlike DOS, what Microsoft has is good enough for the mass desktop/laptop market. The fact that it's not good enough for mobile does not in any way justify tinkering with their successful desktop strategy. IMO, what we're seeing is yet another panicked, reactionary twitch from the Ballmer executive suite.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#29

Post by bitwize »

metrop0219 wrote: post #14
bitwize wrote: post #4

Where Microsoft used to primarily focus on reducing memory consumption, now we are also laser-focused on improving battery life while still delivering a fast and fluid user experience. If Microsoft's previos focus on reducing memory consumption produced prior versions of windows, their new focus on increasing battery life should produce Windows 8 tablets that last a half an hour, tops. While I'm at it, in general, fu…

In what way are they screwing developers? I feel that the three avenues for writing apps (C#/xaml, c++, and html5/js) are actually pretty good for us.

By giving you a crippled, nerfed WinRT API to develop to instead of Win32. Apple's iOS APIs are crippled, too, but the iPad is so much cheaper, niftier, and more pleasant to develop for (seriously, Cocoa APIs are pretty awesome). The key advantage of Windows -- backwards compatibility with prior versions of Windows -- is going to be to some significant degree, lost with WinRT. In short, Microsoft is going to have a hard time attracting a critical mass of developers to this new platform without... incentives[0].

[0] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/10/23/

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#30

Post by rbanffy »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #24
rbanffy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, people said the same about Gnome 3 and Unity and both work very well... But... If you are not a "geek-type", what are you doing on "Hacker News"?

I am a geek type, and one who accepts that technology changes and different != automatically awful. The fact that everyone said the same thing about Unity and are now coming around to it, proves my point. I happen to love Gnome-Shell. I don't mind Unity and I think Win8 is great after you take some time to get used to it.

Your generalizations are incorrect. While a lot of people were very vocal on their opposition to Gnome shell and Unity, I wouldn't say "everyone" opposed them. In fact, I didn't. I considered the move risky, of course.

I think Metro for desktops and notebooks makes very little sense unless you use a multi-touch pointing device like Apple's trackpad. With a mouse, it's painful.

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