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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#161

Post by j_crick »

salesynerd wrote: post #54

It's a very difficult choice to make and I have full sympathies for the lady. I also respect herc choice, considering that it was made by her own free will and complies with the law of the land. However, I still feel a bit conflicted about this situation. As per the report, she is physically fit, has a loving boyfriend, a pet cat, and doesn't seem to be in any monetary duress. Plus, she happens to be living in one of…

See, much like others you put an accent on physicalities (how she’s not in some dirty hole in a very poor and dangerous country), and then switch to relativities.

But WHY do you consider it fair to compare her condition to others’?

You don’t know what’s going on in her mind, you have absolutely no idea how agonizing a mental state can be. Yet you judge her as she’s perceiving things and feeling feelings just like you or anybody else. But that is not the case.

The sad thing about suffering is that if you don’t encounter it before a certain individual threshold amount, it’s very easy to dismiss. For some people, encouraging them to stay here is just another pain point that you can’t even begin to fathom that you’re advocating to add to their struggle with existence.

How about pausing and thinking for a second, what a real, tangible and not “socially feel-good” compassion would mean in such cases?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#162

Post by xeornet »

xeornet wrote: post #24
iagooar wrote: post #5

I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say. My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help. The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of…

Totally agree. It also begs the question, are the people in these situations even mentally fit enough to make the decision rationally? With the limited context I have, I don’t think so. There’d also a lot of reliance on the doctor’s “its never going to get better” - yet time and time again with physical ailments we hear of the impossibility of recovery yet many do recover.

If the downvoters would like to explain their opinion to the contrary, that would be great.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#163

Post by xeornet »

phantomathkg wrote: post #134
xeornet wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any citations for this? That’s an assumption.

Why would this could be assumption? There are suicide cases daily.

That's one statistic - do we have any statistics around those that would take euthanasia if available but end up not committing suicide? No, we likely don't have those statistics but they are equally important to the equation here.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#164

Post by lamontcg »

j_crick wrote: post #160
lamontcg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incurable depression sufferers? I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. You can be in a pretty long deep depression in your 20s and pull out of it in your 30s and 40s.

> I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. That you don’t have or see one doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

But it means that it isn't possible to tell if a 28 year old will pull out of their depression given some more years, or if it really is life-long and untreatable. Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#165

Post by Jenk »

bheadmaster wrote: post #156
Jenk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not implying anything. It's explicitly telling "We as a society have decided for you" This is literally what law is. A social construct to codify (and enable the enforcement of) what is deemed moral vs amoral.

> We as a society have decided for you Which implies that someone else had the freedom to decide what's good for you. Society is just a bunch of other people.

Ya, the majority of society (or not in many cases of authoritarian states across the globe, but I digress).

You appear to be trying to paint some kind on complex philosophical picture where it just simply doesn't exist.

Law is the codification, and ratification, of what society deems ethical/moral behaviour.

Unless you are about to start declaring some magic creates law, no shit it comes from people.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#166

Post by Wytwwww »

raydev wrote: post #148
Wytwwww wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If she doesn't end her life humanely and in the comfort of trained professionals, she can just simply do it at home in a far more unpleasant way What's the difference? It's unavoidable that long term if assisted suicide is normalized (and even endorsed by the healthcare system) more people who wouldn't have chosen that option on their own will decide to kill themselves (or ask a doctor to do it). How do you think a…

> How do you think a person suffering from a mental illness would be affected by their psychiatrist telling them that he can't help him anymore and that maybe they should consider killing themselves Is that happening as policy? Anyway, we can always add a rule not to do this.

That's what the article implied. Of course, I would assume (hope) it would never be this explicit but if assisted suicide is normalized, I wouldn't be surprised that some people might be implicitly steered towards this option by (if the situation seems hopeless and all easily accessible/cheap treatments have been tried)

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#167

Post by j_crick »

lamontcg wrote: post #164
j_crick wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. That you don’t have or see one doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

But it means that it isn't possible to tell if a 28 year old will pull out of their depression given some more years, or if it really is life-long and untreatable. Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy.

> Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy

Are you some kind of arbiter of bodies and lives of others? If not, what's your business with that?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#168

Post by sebazzz »

Wytwwww wrote: post #103
i_am_programmer wrote: post #58

It's disheartening so many don't see the brain as a physical part of ourselves, just the mental. To describe this individual as suffering from "crippling depression" but also "physically healthy" when they clearly suffer from long term mental health problems feels like an oxymoron. I'm not sure for what reason people think everyone needs to be alive and live long natural lives. If she doesn't end her life humanely an…

> If she doesn't end her life humanely and in the comfort of trained professionals, she can just simply do it at home in a far more unpleasant way What's the difference? It's unavoidable that long term if assisted suicide is normalized (and even endorsed by the healthcare system) more people who wouldn't have chosen that option on their own will decide to kill themselves (or ask a doctor to do it). How do you think a…

> What's the difference? It's unavoidable that long term if assisted suicide is normalized (and even endorsed by the healthcare system) more people who wouldn't have chosen that option on their own will decide to kill themselves (or ask a doctor to do it).

What does that matter? Aren’t we all supposed to be entitled to have that control over our own lives?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#169

Post by Wytwwww »

sebazzz wrote: post #168
Wytwwww wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If she doesn't end her life humanely and in the comfort of trained professionals, she can just simply do it at home in a far more unpleasant way What's the difference? It's unavoidable that long term if assisted suicide is normalized (and even endorsed by the healthcare system) more people who wouldn't have chosen that option on their own will decide to kill themselves (or ask a doctor to do it). How do you think a…

> What's the difference? It's unavoidable that long term if assisted suicide is normalized (and even endorsed by the healthcare system) more people who wouldn't have chosen that option on their own will decide to kill themselves (or ask a doctor to do it). What does that matter? Aren’t we all supposed to be entitled to have that control over our own lives?

Perhaps. But that seems like an illusion to me in this case. One can hardly consider people suffering from severe mental illnesses to be capable of making rational choices which would mean that their decisions would be influence significantly more by the environment and the people that surround them.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#170

Post by arrowsmith »

Jach wrote: post #100
arrowsmith wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to me it doesn't. For example, here's the story of a disabled Canadian man who "consented" to euthanasia because he thought it was his only alternative to homelessness: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-eut... In this case he withdrew his "consent" after strangers helped him out financially, but I'm sure there are other cases that didn't end so luckily. As suicide gets normalised you can ex…

Do you have any suggestions of a limiting principle, then, or do you just think suicide should never be an available service others can offer and must always be done by oneself?

I'm honestly not sure. I recognize the complexity of the issue, and for what it's worth I used to be totally in favour of legalizing euthanasia until I saw what it looks like in practice in countries that have done it. But my current feeling is that the limiting principle should be we don't do anything in any way to normalise suicide, to tell anyone that suicide is a reasonable solution to their problems, or to give the state the power to end anyone's life. Anything else opens Pandora's box and is sure to lead us down a very dark path.
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