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The race to replace Redis

lwn.net

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Re: The race to replace Redis

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to argue that a use permitted by the original license is „predatory”.

That's fair in isolation, but one can justifiably argue that a repeated pattern of behavior is clearly predatory. Specifically: have the major cloud providers ever created a successful FOSS database, cache, or fulltext search index project from the ground up ? By this I mean, a FOSS project with its own protocol, own community from scratch, not a fork or a re-implementation or based on another FOSS project, nor a lat…

Have any major software company ever created a successful software from the ground up ? No, they all base their work on some language ! They are predatory !

Wait, does any language team ever created a successful implementation from the ground up ? No, they all base their work on some hardware people ! They are predatory !

Wait, does any hardware manufacturers ever created a successful product from the ground up ? No, they all base their work of some software ! They are predatory !

Re: The race to replace Redis

#512
post #368

Whoa, very biased article (especially for LWN). Only cites media coverage; no links supporting that Amazon, MSFT, Google, etc. were in fact EEE’ing (or at best, behaving unethically) with each of these projects. It even suggests cloud providers did contribute, and uses bad data (git commits “by employer” w/o dataset) that basically contradicts their argument. I may be biased, as I saw Amazon doing exactly what this a…

Bah

  The OSI doesn’t get to define open-source.
By definition: yes, they do.

  The SSPL only impacts cloud-providers
It impacts all people who manages mongodb for somebody else, which is a lot of hosting providers (many of which probably do not care about the licence and are too small to get caught)

Re: The race to replace Redis

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are presuming everyone has the same needs as you had when assessing Redis, which is a bit naive, if I may share my opinion.

> You are presuming ... No, no, not at all: I admit, accept that no doubt Redis has a lot more functionality than the few pages of code I wrote. My question was: My code looks like it will do what I need done, but maybe I'm missing something, i.e., maybe Redis has some features that very likely I should have? If want to expand the question to other people, what is the chance that usually Redis is overkill , more func…

If that is enough for you, then that is good

You may need data persistence (keep the data live while you restart your process), cross-instance coherencies could be nice too, automatic data expiration too.

But if you do not, then it is ok!

Re: The race to replace Redis

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair in isolation, but one can justifiably argue that a repeated pattern of behavior is clearly predatory. Specifically: have the major cloud providers ever created a successful FOSS database, cache, or fulltext search index project from the ground up ? By this I mean, a FOSS project with its own protocol, own community from scratch, not a fork or a re-implementation or based on another FOSS project, nor a lat…

Have any major software company ever created a successful software from the ground up ? No, they all base their work on some language ! They are predatory ! Wait, does any language team ever created a successful implementation from the ground up ? No, they all base their work on some hardware people ! They are predatory ! Wait, does any hardware manufacturers ever created a successful product from the ground up ? No,…

Not even remotely the same situation at all. It's not about using some other existing language/hardware/software and building something on top of it.

Rather, it's a question of cloud vendors repeatedly building open source competing drop-in re-implementations of external db/cache/search products when those original products switch away from FOSS licenses to survive, despite the cloud vendor being a million times larger and better resourced than the original db/cache/search developers. The cloud vendors aren't building something on top of these products (like your examples), but rather they are aiming to competitively replace these products and capture the mindshare of their communities.

This strategy allows the cloud vendor to skip the hard steps of developing a unique product from scratch, designing a client/server protocol from scratch, building a community from scratch, and so many other things.

Separately, the cloud vendors do also build their own unique db/cache/search products, but they just don't ever make them source-available or self-hostable when they do so -- let alone FOSS. That is what makes the pattern of behavior predatory: the big cloud vendors use their dominant positions to bring non-FOSS products to the market, while using FOSS re-implementations to destroy competitors who dare move away from FOSS themselves.

None of the 3 examples you described above are in any way related to this scenario.

Re: The race to replace Redis

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are presuming ... No, no, not at all: I admit, accept that no doubt Redis has a lot more functionality than the few pages of code I wrote. My question was: My code looks like it will do what I need done, but maybe I'm missing something, i.e., maybe Redis has some features that very likely I should have? If want to expand the question to other people, what is the chance that usually Redis is overkill , more func…

If that is enough for you, then that is good You may need data persistence (keep the data live while you restart your process), cross-instance coherencies could be nice too, automatic data expiration too. But if you do not, then it is ok!

Thanks. My project had an interruption, and I'm getting back to the code.

My code that needs a key-value store is simple, short, just uses two instances of a .NET collection class.

I need NAT (network address translation) to keep affinity of each user with their one execution instance of my code, but I suspect that is automatic with Microsoft's IIS (Iinternet Information Server) that the code uses.

For persistence, the code needs that only long enough for each user connection. And for performance, I don't need sharding across several servers acting like a cluster -- maybe that is some of what Redis supports.

It appears that .NET has more functionality and performance potential (user connections per minute) than my project needs, so I'm trying not to try to master everything Google, Facebook, Amazon, a big bank, Walmart, etc. might need! So far, I'm pleased with .NET.

Re: The race to replace Redis

#516
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you want a ConcurrentDictionary, but that still wouldn’t provide you with a cluster across instances. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/collection...

Nice! Thanks! Looks like a nice .NET class! It's thread safe so that if my startup is more successful than I'm assuming then I'll be free to do less on how to exploit parallelism from several servers. As it is, the code I wrote serialized access to the key-value store I wrote. Sooo, that could be a performance bottleneck. I should review network address translation (NAT) and affinity of one user to some one server, i…

Please don't use IIS hosting. Use latest LTS version (.NET 8) and ASP.NET Core in Kestrel mode of hosting (which is default and cross-platform).

This will save you a lot of headache and get the best experience.

Re: The race to replace Redis

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! Thanks! Looks like a nice .NET class! It's thread safe so that if my startup is more successful than I'm assuming then I'll be free to do less on how to exploit parallelism from several servers. As it is, the code I wrote serialized access to the key-value store I wrote. Sooo, that could be a performance bottleneck. I should review network address translation (NAT) and affinity of one user to some one server, i…

Please don't use IIS hosting. Use latest LTS version (.NET 8) and ASP.NET Core in Kestrel mode of hosting (which is default and cross-platform). This will save you a lot of headache and get the best experience.

Thanks! LTS and Kestrel are new to me! Just did a first Google search on them. Thanks!

I'm the self-funded, sole/solo founder. So, I pay attention to the business, e.g., getting and pleasing the users, and also the computing. If successful, then getting paid for running ads, accounting, taxes, lawyers, floor space, employees, etc.

So, for now, concentrating on pleasing the users. Part of that is some original applied math. Users won't be aware of any math, but the math should be secret sauce and an unfair advantage. So, am also concentrating on applying the math.

For the software, trying to keep that simple.

Had a disaster, but before that had the Web site running: Mid tower case ($40 with a $20 rebate), $65 motherboard, 8 core AMD processor with a 4.0 GHz standard clock ($100 at Amazon), Windows 7 Professional, some 4.x version of .NET, IIS, ASP.NET, ADO.NET. As I understand it, .NET CORE came later and is more restrictive.

My project is only for a Web site; users will get to the site only via the Internet and a standard Web browser. E.g., I'm making no use of anything mobile. So, the project has no mobile app.

Am highly motivated (1) to stay with just Windows, soon Windows Server, and (2) to keep down, to zero, the investment of time to program on Linux, IoS, Android, etc. -- hope never to write any code for any of them. That is, I can get paid only from revenue from the business; while I have to write the code, and it's fun to do, that's all a business expense; I can't get paid for writing code. I'm assuming that Microsoft and Windows have a foundation plenty sufficient for my business objectives.

I have yet to move to a later version of .NET: Okay, I should, but, still, not looking forward to the effort. To me, the 4.x version of .NET I used looked fine. For another outrage, I wrote in the .NET version of VB (Visual Basic) and wrote no C, C++, or C#. I really like VB.NET, regard it as a nicely designed, implemented, documented language with plenty of features for what I need.

For what I wrote, the UI (user interface) is simple and traditional -- billions of people will understand it at zero effort, immediately. There is a huge range, world, universe of Web page design features I didn't use.

The timings I did show that the site is astoundingly fast, fast enough that if can keep the computing on average 50% busy 24/7, then standard ad rates will generate some gratifying revenue.

An 8 core processor with a 4.0 GHz clock is no toy, is a lot of computing.

Recently heard about Amazon and their AWS (Amazon Web Services) wanting the TLS (Transport Layer Security) version 1.2. Soooo, I checked, saw that I was using version 1.1, that 1.2 was available, so picked 1.2.

What I'm doing now is dirt simple: Have 1000+ Web pages of Windows and .NET documentation, so wrote just ~300 lines of Rexx code to extract the page titles from the HTML tags

...

and make a TOC (table of contents) I can read into my favorite editor KEDIT and search -- then one keystroke to KEDIT will have Firefox display the Web page.

Want to do some more system management, get the site running again, do some revisions, do some marketing, and go live.

In short, my CEO-business hat has me think, for the foundation of .NET, it's good on features, is now old and likely quite reliable for the old features I will use, and seems plenty fast -- soooo, I know, I should be ashamed, that's good enough!

Re: The race to replace Redis

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't use IIS hosting. Use latest LTS version (.NET 8) and ASP.NET Core in Kestrel mode of hosting (which is default and cross-platform). This will save you a lot of headache and get the best experience.

Thanks! LTS and Kestrel are new to me! Just did a first Google search on them. Thanks! I'm the self-funded, sole/solo founder. So, I pay attention to the business, e.g., getting and pleasing the users, and also the computing. If successful, then getting paid for running ads, accounting, taxes, lawyers, floor space, employees, etc. So, for now, concentrating on pleasing the users. Part of that is some original applied…

Almost everything you wrote is factually wrong, but I'm not prepared to write an A4 equivalent length rebuttal. It seems you have not been even tangentially keeping track of any developments after... 2015.

Re: The race to replace Redis

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! LTS and Kestrel are new to me! Just did a first Google search on them. Thanks! I'm the self-funded, sole/solo founder. So, I pay attention to the business, e.g., getting and pleasing the users, and also the computing. If successful, then getting paid for running ads, accounting, taxes, lawyers, floor space, employees, etc. So, for now, concentrating on pleasing the users. Part of that is some original applied…

Almost everything you wrote is factually wrong, but I'm not prepared to write an A4 equivalent length rebuttal. It seems you have not been even tangentially keeping track of any developments after... 2015.

> Almost everything you wrote is factually wrong

I know of no such, and you gave no examples.

> It seems you have not been even tangentially keeping track of any developments after... 2015.

You are attacking me personally or the content of my writing?

For your date 2015: A key to my Web site is some math, and it is original with me, from my research, and, thus, fully up to date! Uh, I'm able to do such math partly because I hold a Ph.D. in applied math from a world famous university; for more, I've published peer-reviewed papers in applied math, saved FedEx with some applied math for the BoD, taught applied math in some famous universities, both graduate and undergraduate, and, oh yes, published peer reviewed original research in artificial intelligence. Also taught computer science at Georgetown University.

There was a LOT going on in the Internet and the Web, HTML, SQL, etc. long before your 2015: Gee, there was a nice introduction to developing Web sites in

Jim Buyens, 'Web Database Development, Step by Step: .NET Edition', ISBN 0-7356-1637-X, Microsoft Press, Redmond, Washington, 2002.

Yup, that's 2002, long before your 2015!

That book is an example of excellent technical writing. There are 15 chapters with nice introductions to each of VB.NET, ASP.NET, ADO.NET, database and SQL, one chapter for each, plus more -- all from 2002!

The book does not emphasize how to use JavaScript to make Web pages that jump around for no good reason, make users angry and leave, and hurt the ad revenue.

Net, in simple terms, what is new and important about my work is my original math; nearly all the rest of the tools used and features implemented goes back to the last century.

For some irony, and also a good lesson, consider Hacker News and its functionality and user interface, both that go back largely or entirely to the last century.

Uh, for "developments" since your 2015, for the back end, that has my original math which is fully up to date, and for the front end, i.e., the user interface, in general, in simple terms, for my Web pages, each new technique would be something more users don't understand and that, thus, might hurt the success of the site.

Let's see, since your 2015:

Pizza is really OLD, and Pizza Hut is worth $38 billion.

Hamburgers are really OLD, and McDonald's is worth $193 billion. Burger King, $34 billion.

My 1986 Chevy S-10 Blazer had good electronic fuel injection, no other digital electronics, and standard sealed beam headlights which for me made it as up to date as I want -- for anything since then, for me it's useless or annoying, more to buy, and more to maintain so I don't want it.

Re: The race to replace Redis

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything you wrote is factually wrong, but I'm not prepared to write an A4 equivalent length rebuttal. It seems you have not been even tangentially keeping track of any developments after... 2015.

> Almost everything you wrote is factually wrong I know of no such, and you gave no examples. > It seems you have not been even tangentially keeping track of any developments after... 2015. You are attacking me personally or the content of my writing? For your date 2015: A key to my Web site is some math, and it is original with me, from my research, and, thus, fully up to date! Uh, I'm able to do such math partly be…

I think you need to talk to someone
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