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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#81

Post by up_and_out »

deugtniet wrote: post #76
up_and_out wrote: post #50

[flagged]

Let's be absolutely clear, euthanasia is not widespread anywhere. It's legal in a few jurisdictions, and it's not something that is taken lightly by any party involved. It's extremely rare for a young person to be granted euthanasia in the Netherlands, and only when the individual suffers without any hope for remit. This lady has tried to be granted euthanasia for years now, after suffering from a serious disease for…

For years, I thought I'd tried everything. I was surrounded by people saying "you can't run for your problems."

I'm incredibly glad I decided to ignore them as a hail mary and I'm sure as shit glad I wasn't posting here. I'd be dead with people calling me brave and saying I died with dignity. Glad I lived to instead be shamed for encouraging people to explore other options before taking a final solution. It's impossible to be more self-destructive than the people saying this is great.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#82

Post by bacro »

sneak wrote: post #21
bacro wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that when the problem is irreversible and will cause unending pain for the person. However, this case does not seem like it. If she had like Parkinson or Alzheimer then I would understand but depression? There are very good anti-depressants that help go through if she cannot find another way to cope. Also, there might be something physically wrong that doctors might have overlooked which causes her depre…

You should always be free to destroy yourself absent any medical reason or justification. It is a personal decision and there is no reason anyone should be required to explain or justify it. We don’t require a medical reason to enhance or build our bodies, we don’t need one to damage or destroy them. I’m already allowed to eat fried foods 10 times a day and chainsmoke and do it slowly and painfully; if that is legal…

The question is: What if the depression she has has a cause that can be curable 100% and she can have a very happy life, would she still want to do it if she knew that?

I am not sure that we "should be free" to end our life as you say. Sure, we did not have any say about coming to life but I think that if you don't have any incurable disease that causes you significant pain, you can always find something that will make life worthwhile. Unless you are born in Northern Korea or some country that restricts your freedom.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#83

Post by deugtniet »

up_and_out wrote: post #81
deugtniet wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be absolutely clear, euthanasia is not widespread anywhere. It's legal in a few jurisdictions, and it's not something that is taken lightly by any party involved. It's extremely rare for a young person to be granted euthanasia in the Netherlands, and only when the individual suffers without any hope for remit. This lady has tried to be granted euthanasia for years now, after suffering from a serious disease for…

For years, I thought I'd tried everything. I was surrounded by people saying "you can't run for your problems." I'm incredibly glad I decided to ignore them as a hail mary and I'm sure as shit glad I wasn't posting here. I'd be dead with people calling me brave and saying I died with dignity. Glad I lived to instead be shamed for encouraging people to explore other options before taking a final solution. It's impossi…

I'm very happy you're happy :-)

Unfortunately this is not the case for a very small minority of individuals who suffer without a cure. I prefer these people to go through their process with dignity, than to go for the other option.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#84

Post by david-gpu »

tmelm wrote: post #61
sneak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should always be free to destroy yourself absent any medical reason or justification. It is a personal decision and there is no reason anyone should be required to explain or justify it. We don’t require a medical reason to enhance or build our bodies, we don’t need one to damage or destroy them. I’m already allowed to eat fried foods 10 times a day and chainsmoke and do it slowly and painfully; if that is legal…

This makes sense to some extent (terminal illness or such), but one can argue as someone did above that if you're willing to make the permanent decision to "destroy" yourself, are you sane enough to legally make decision? Are you for sure not under temporary delusion, distress, or other threat? You can always "legally" "destroy" yourself through suicide, but if you want to involve a medical professional it seems very…

> You can always "legally" "destroy" yourself through suicide

Not in a dignified, foolproof way. E.g. can you go to a pharmacy and get a dose of morphine that will kill you with certainty? You can't, in most jurisdictions.

Forcing other people to deal with the trauma of cleaning up your bloody remains after you jump off a window isn't exactly compassionate either.

Give people a clean way out, even if you don't want it for yourself.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#85

Post by emblaegh »

tennisflyi wrote: post #46
emblaegh wrote: post #28

Haven't read the article, but does it say why'd she go for euthanasia? I'd imagine there are dignified ways of bringing this matter into one's own hands. Edit: I think this may have come off as “geez just kill yourself and spare us the drama”, but I’m just genuinely curious why’d she choose one over the other whenever I assume she has the means to pursue both.

Uh, yeah, euthanasia?

“Easier and equally dignified” would make my comment clearer.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#86

Post by bluescrn »

iagooar wrote: post #5

I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say. My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help. The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of…

There's quite a difference between actually killing somebody and allowing them to kill themselves in a painless/peaceful manner - e.g. providing them access to drugs/devices that they have to choose to use themselves.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#87

Post by david-gpu »

geraldwhen wrote: post #17
sneak wrote: post #4

I wish more countries recognized the ultimate and inviolable right to self ownership. If we aren’t free to destroy ourselves if we so desire, we aren’t actually free.

This person isn’t destroying themself. They’re forcing someone else to do it for them, and they’re shitposting online for eyeballs in the meantime. They could die at any time. This is an elaborate show by someone who needs to be told “no” and given a clear direction.

> They’re forcing someone else to do it for them

No health professional is being forced to assist in an euthanasia against their will.

Is it so hard to believe that all the parties involved are willing participants?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#88

Post by arkey »

akie wrote: post #79
arkey wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should go about enabling the "better" committing of wrong acts? A killer set on killing will kill anyway, so maybe we could pair them up and have both happy? The "they will do it anyway" argument is as absurd as it is dangerous. Heh, it's not like it backfired in the past at all, is it?

Why do you think it's "wrong" that someone wants to die? Isn't it her life to begin with? It's hers to decide what she wants to do with it, and if she wants to die because of unbearable suffering (which is the legal threshold in the Netherlands, and needs to be confirmed by two independent doctors) she should be free to do so.

If that's your position, there's no use in us arguing.

I differ, considering life as sacred, and worried though not surprised of how we're moving as a society from holding life as sacred, at least in appearance, to overtly disregarding it in this manner. On the other hand, as I mentioned in a different reply, I have a big difficulty trusting doctors and their "nothing else to be done".

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#89

Post by Wytwwww »

bheadmaster wrote: post #25
croes wrote: post #6

So the other way aroun, physical sick and mentally healthy, isn't a problem? Isn't it about curability and pain?

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe t…

> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy.

These are fundamentally different situations. Incurable cancer patients are basically guaranteed to die because of their condition in the near future.

Allowing "euthanasia"/assisted suicide only normalizes suicide and encourages the state/societe/health-providers to dedicate less resources to mental health since we have a much cheaper/easier solution now. How do you determine that someone suffering from a mental health condition "terminally ill"? The patients surely can't do that themselves and the healthcare system(private or public) is only able to dedicate a certain amount of resources to a relatively limited number of approved treatment options.

I don't know what happened in this case but I'd bet that there were certainly many experimental (and probably mainstream) treatment options that she simply had no access to. Cancer and other terminal patients beyond a certain point are effectively doomed and can't be saved regardless of money/resources, they can't wait for another year or two for improved treatments, which IMHO is a huge difference because "euthanasia" shouldn't be an acceptable option unless every other option has been exhausted.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#90

Post by arrowsmith »

Jach wrote: post #80
arrowsmith wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it won't stop with people who are truly living with unsolvable pain. You're painfully naive if you can't see that. What's the limiting principle here exactly? If we normalize the idea that suicide is a solution to any problem, it's inevitably going to start being used as a "solution" for more and more problems: treatable illness, poverty, old age, disability, dependence on those who'd rather not shoulder the b…

Consent seems like a sufficient limiting principle.

Not to me it doesn't.

For example, here's the story of a disabled Canadian man who "consented" to euthanasia because he thought it was his only alternative to homelessness:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-eut...

In this case he withdrew his "consent" after strangers helped him out financially, but I'm sure there are other cases that didn't end so luckily.

As suicide gets normalised you can expect the concept of "consent" to get expanded even further beyond the bounds of decency.

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