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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#71

Post by emblaegh »

Mashimo wrote: post #41
emblaegh wrote: post #28

Haven't read the article, but does it say why'd she go for euthanasia? I'd imagine there are dignified ways of bringing this matter into one's own hands. Edit: I think this may have come off as “geez just kill yourself and spare us the drama”, but I’m just genuinely curious why’d she choose one over the other whenever I assume she has the means to pursue both.

What would be a more dignified way?

I can be really wrong here, but I assumed anything a doctor can do you can do it yourself. Would need to get drugs illegally probably, but would spare the family the media circus, and the (presumed) bureaucracy of getting euthanasia approved. My question was out of genuine curiosity of her motivation of choosing one way over the other.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#73

Post by marginalia_nu »

The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death.

It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy.

I am willing to grant them the point that in a hypothetical society where suicide was not taboo, but an mundane and uncontroversial act, a lot of things we consider problems would vanish overnight. Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will.

At first glance, this seems like it would benefit the bullies, but if you think further, you realize they would find themselves completely isolated without allies. The only way to successfully work with other people would be through cooperation.

It's obviously not entirely realistic to have a society that functions this way, but it's arguably an underexplored counterfactual that raises questions regarding who actually benefits from particular taboo.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#75

Post by rschiavone »

arrowsmith wrote: post #59
rschiavone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a person has tried every other option and there is still no end to their pain, either physical or psychological, they would sooner or later try to end their life anyway. It is in the best interest of everybody to offer assisted suicide at a set time and date instead of taking the matter into their own hands and leaving family, friends and first responders with the trauma of discovering a body.

Except it won't stop with people who are truly living with unsolvable pain. You're painfully naive if you can't see that. What's the limiting principle here exactly? If we normalize the idea that suicide is a solution to any problem, it's inevitably going to start being used as a "solution" for more and more problems: treatable illness, poverty, old age, disability, dependence on those who'd rather not shoulder the b…

I do not advocate for taking the "easy" way out (I feel terrible for phrasing it this way).

What I say is that, for those cases where professionals have reasonable suspicion that it would happen anyway, offering a more humane option is the right thing to do. It shouldn't be an option to be offered lightly to anyone.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#76

Post by deugtniet »

up_and_out wrote: post #50

[flagged]

Let's be absolutely clear, euthanasia is not widespread anywhere. It's legal in a few jurisdictions, and it's not something that is taken lightly by any party involved. It's extremely rare for a young person to be granted euthanasia in the Netherlands, and only when the individual suffers without any hope for remit.

This lady has tried to be granted euthanasia for years now, after suffering from a serious disease for all her life. Without any treatment that helped her. In all those years, she has tried to cure herself of the disease, but to no consequence. I think she deserves to get what _she_ wants with dignity.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#77

Post by arkey »

nan60 wrote: post #16

This was a fascinating read and really got me thinking about the morality of suicide all things considered. We’ve collectively decided as a society that suicide is a bad thing, and rarely is mental health treated the same as physical in the realm of euthanasia.

My general experience received from doctors in my adult life has been, in summary, "Go take some Ibuprofen and stop bothering me".

And because of some other, more complex cases close to me, I will NEVER trust a doctor's "Nothing else can be done". Too many times it has been proven wrong.

So I can't understand someone killing themselves based on any doctor's criteria.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#78

Post by david-gpu »

noname120 wrote: post #49
zer00eyz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because leftovers can kill you if you're on them. They have gnarly side effects. SSRI's as well.

> Maybe because leftovers can kill you if you're on them. What?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor#...

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#79

Post by akie »

arkey wrote: post #65
phantomathkg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel sorry for her decision as well, but this is not wrong. Think about it for the moment. - She can schedule an euthanasia. - She can throw herself in front of a train. - She can hang herself somewhere. - Many many other "traditional" way. The difference here is, if she schedule euthanasia, the people provide the service will have to finish everything up for her, and they should be less traumatise compare to the t…

So we should go about enabling the "better" committing of wrong acts? A killer set on killing will kill anyway, so maybe we could pair them up and have both happy? The "they will do it anyway" argument is as absurd as it is dangerous. Heh, it's not like it backfired in the past at all, is it?

Why do you think it's "wrong" that someone wants to die? Isn't it her life to begin with? It's hers to decide what she wants to do with it, and if she wants to die because of unbearable suffering (which is the legal threshold in the Netherlands, and needs to be confirmed by two independent doctors) she should be free to do so.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#80

Post by Jach »

arrowsmith wrote: post #59
rschiavone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a person has tried every other option and there is still no end to their pain, either physical or psychological, they would sooner or later try to end their life anyway. It is in the best interest of everybody to offer assisted suicide at a set time and date instead of taking the matter into their own hands and leaving family, friends and first responders with the trauma of discovering a body.

Except it won't stop with people who are truly living with unsolvable pain. You're painfully naive if you can't see that. What's the limiting principle here exactly? If we normalize the idea that suicide is a solution to any problem, it's inevitably going to start being used as a "solution" for more and more problems: treatable illness, poverty, old age, disability, dependence on those who'd rather not shoulder the b…

Consent seems like a sufficient limiting principle.
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