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All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

37signals.com

111–120 of 124 posts

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#111
post #5

I know the guys at 37Signals are a smart pack, but I don't understand their hangup with Instagram and Pinterest... and apparently FB (esp. their older posts). FB has proven to be able to make $billions of revenue and substantial profit, and is only growing. Isn't that proof that an ad-based model can work if it's large enough? Instagram was FB's biggest competitor... huge growth and huge adoption amongst young groups…

Any service that can garner 100s of millions of users can find a way to monetize.

I heard people say this a thousand times in 1999. I doubt it's any more true now than it was then.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#112
post #23

The chance that granny is going to lose her pension fund is much more related to the actions of the banking and financial industries. Granny is already losing her savings with near-zero interest rates.

Is this really true? As in, are savings accounts in the US essentially useless now?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but in NZ standard saving accounts are ~2%, and more investment focused (fixed term and variants) are 4-6%.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#113
post #112
post #23

The chance that granny is going to lose her pension fund is much more related to the actions of the banking and financial industries. Granny is already losing her savings with near-zero interest rates.

Is this really true? As in, are savings accounts in the US essentially useless now? I don't know about the rest of the world, but in NZ standard saving accounts are ~2%, and more investment focused (fixed term and variants) are 4-6%.

It's better than stuffing the money in a mattress, but not much more. Typical savings account interest rates are < 1%.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#114
post #112
post #23

The chance that granny is going to lose her pension fund is much more related to the actions of the banking and financial industries. Granny is already losing her savings with near-zero interest rates.

Is this really true? As in, are savings accounts in the US essentially useless now? I don't know about the rest of the world, but in NZ standard saving accounts are ~2%, and more investment focused (fixed term and variants) are 4-6%.

I assume that the parent poster meant that granny is having the real value of her cash savings eroded through inflation because of the zero percent interest rate @ the US fed

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#115
Numerically, it is difficult to credit VC-fueled startups for driving the quick increase in engineering wages. First, they don't pay top salaries. If a bidding war erupts for a particular candidate it is highly unlikely that a VC startup wins. It will be won by everyone's favorite multinational advertising company which will this quarter hire enough engineers to staff approximately 1023signals worth of product dev companies, or their close bretheren AppAmaFaceSoft, which together could a) fill the SuperDome with engineers making more than $120k apiece (and substantially more these days) and b) which cannot reasonably be said to be paying engineers with money they swindled out of gullible investors. No, they pay the money with the hundreds of billions of dollars of sales they make directly attributable to software.

The price of butter is the price of butter. If one hypothetically thinks butter is too expensive, sell butter, don't buy butter. (i.e. offer your services as an engineer rather than trying to hire engineers.) It think it is highly unlikely that anything happening in the capital markets, positive or negative, will make cause engineering (and related trades) to re-transition to the days where you could e.g. find perfectly adequate programmers for $40k. (P.S. Not to slight anybody making that, as I was at $30k like two years ago. Get a wee bit more sophisticated about who you work for and what you work on. You'll do better monetarily and quite possibly have more fun.)

There exist repeatable ways to scalably build product businesses with millions of dollars of actual revenue out of a few man months of work. Unless that economic reality goes away, engineers (&etc) will continue to be cheap at essentially any price.

This is great news for everyone selling talent here. Is it bad news for those buying talent? Meh. If you could pick any time in the history of the world to start a software business, it would probably be now, because the markets are bigger than ever, the distribution channels are fantastic, the SaaS billing model allows us to 10x prices without business customers perceiving any increased difficulty to justify the purchase, the non-human capital costs associated with a software business are asymptotically approaching zero, etc etc.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#117
post #35

I've called the kneejerk "bubble" reactions "boring" [1] and I stand by that. That doesn't mean I disagree (or agree for that matter). It just means that banal perjoratives with nothing to back them up are boring . To call this a bubble, one must first describe what one means by a bubble. A bubble in my mind is a period of rapid growth in valuations followed by a massive devaluation on such a scale that it hinders in…

Here's my question:

Say it turns out that in a year or two Facebook settles onto a good solid advertising system that makes sense to advertisers. Revenues to a sustainable $5b and keeps up a nice sweet margin of 25%-30%. Expected growth is 10% for the next few years as advertisers figure out how to use it (in my opinion this was the driver of Google's growth post IPO). That's a genuine whale. As a startup story it's massive economic success in a short period of time. Even this (hypothetical) post IPO year or two seem (to me) like a success story.

But.. investors (at the present stage) are betting (according to the price) on much better results than that. 5X-10X better at least to call the investment good.

I'm not saying this will happen (I dunno). I'm asking what if*. Basically the company which didn't exist a few years ago is now a huge (& good) company. Easily worth $20bn, maybe more. But investors are losing money. How bad is that? Does the company fall apart. Is the danger bad enough for managers risk everything over & over to avoid it?

^ I'm going on media reports of Mrkt Cap/Rev/Profit of $100bn/$3.7b/$1b

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#118
post #35

I've called the kneejerk "bubble" reactions "boring" [1] and I stand by that. That doesn't mean I disagree (or agree for that matter). It just means that banal perjoratives with nothing to back them up are boring . To call this a bubble, one must first describe what one means by a bubble. A bubble in my mind is a period of rapid growth in valuations followed by a massive devaluation on such a scale that it hinders in…

Just because we are not in a tech-bubble doesn't mean there is no bubble. All these crazy valuations may be secondary effects from a larger, hitherto unseen bubble. -Credit/Money: We are currently printing money to finance our lifestyle here in the US. China currently holds around 3 trillion US dollars and the dollar is only worth something as long as they don't try to cash out. -Education: Something bad is happening…

We're in a bubble that's inside of another bubble that is floating with a few other bubbles.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only recruiting mail I get aggressively is from startups and Google. That's it. I hear all the time that there is a significant talent shortage, but part of me wonders whether that's a combination of people that don't want to work at Google for whatever reason and developers with families that don't want to bet on a startup. My colleagues in big iron, however, are much choosier about who they hire.

To understand Google recruitment, you need to understand the incentives. They want lots of people to apply, fewer to interview, and very few hires. Effectively, they are very choosy but each step of the filtering process is incentivized for high volume on the input and low volume on the pass rate. So, you get a lot of people 'recruited' that don't get job offers. Many startups also lament 'we only end up hiring 1 out…

To understand Google recruitment, you need to understand the incentives. They want lots of people to apply, fewer to interview, and very few hires. Effectively, they are very choosy but each step of the filtering process is incentivized for high volume on the input and low volume on the pass rate.

Then the Google hiring process is probably biased to false negatives. So applying at Google is somewhat like a scratch-off lottery, unless you have something going for you that makes you stand out.

This makes me think that networking by "doing stuff with people" is a much more effective strategy, especially if you think there's something about your CV which could be a red flagged in a system biased to false negatives.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#120
post #24

The pieces of this argument fit together very neatly, but the problem is that they don't correspond to reality. E.g. the cloud about increased VC fundraising. In reality VCs are having a hard time fundraising: http://nvcaccess.nvca.org/index.php/topics/research-and-tren... Thus it also isn't true that the cause of higher valuations is that VCs have more money. Valuations are certainly higher, but I think the reason i…

Even if he's wrong on that point does it invalidate the basic premise that other businesses suffer at the expense of the companies which are overvalued? (at least thats how I read it)

It could. When there is a lot of talk about startups in the press, that increases the supply of programmers, because it makes more people study CS. But as I pointed out in another comment, big companies could be responsible for more of the increased demand for hackers than startups. If so, "overvalued" startups could be net helping rather than hurting the job market.

I'm not saying this is the case. I don't know. If were going to write about this topic, I'd start by looking at the world and seeing what's actually happening.

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