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'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#811

Post by Spooky23 »

logro wrote: post #725
Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

So if you're just an 9-5 office based terrorist doing admin stuff, you're off limits?

As a target for assassination? Yeah.

It makes sense. Blowing up a military HQ with a clerk in it makes sense. Blowing up a clerk walking on the sidewalk seems like a wasted effort.

You can come up with all sorts of justifications for anything. At the end of the day, time and time again, over the top escalation usually hurts the stronger party. Asymmetrical warfare doesn’t garner sympathy or military advantages to the stronger party.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#812

Post by Zuiii »

Given israel's well-documented history and proclivity to commit genocides against the innocent (ironic given what happened in ww2), why is this time in particular so egregious? I don't get it. Poor AI accuracy is an accepted reality not just in civilian systems.

On silver lining for those who lost their lives to his particular holocaust: These technologies in particular have a tendency of ending up used against the very people who created them or authorized their use.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#813

Post by goatlover »

Qem wrote: post #331
surfingdino wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always starts with making a list of targets that meet given criteria. Once you have the list its use changes from categorisation to demonisation -> surveillance -> denial of rights -> deportations -> killing. Early use of computers by Germans during WW2 included making and processing of lists of people who ought to be sent to concentration camps. The only difference today is that we are able to capture more data a…

There's even books written about it. Shame on IBM for this. I suspect in the future we'll have lots of books like this, for other companies enabling this genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#815

Post by goatlover »

bjourne wrote: post #735
hluska wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It's because actions speak louder than words. The bombings Gaza has suffered is worse than Dresden during WWII. There is a famine in north Gaza. 30 000+ Palestinians have been killed. There is live footage of Palestinians waving white flags but still getting sniped by Israeli soldiers. The same soldiers that laugh while blowing up mosques and running over corpses with their bulldozers. When someone show you who they…

The firebombing of Tokyo was around 100,000 dead.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#816

Post by goatlover »

throwaway7351 wrote: post #425
Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

By the standards discussed in the article, anyone with a beef with Israel could justify targeting possible a majority of buildings in Israel. After all, most of the population is required to serve in the IDF.

What do you think all those rockets being intercepted by the Iron Dome are targeting?

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#817

Post by refulgentis »

goatlover wrote: post #813
Qem wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's even books written about it. Shame on IBM for this. I suspect in the future we'll have lots of books like this, for other companies enabling this genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

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It's reasonable to view Palestine as a nation and it's reasonable to look at what's going on and see forced starvation of a nation coupled to, as we are discussing here, cruelly relaxed standards for enemy combatants that make a mockery of international law and are de facto indiscriminate by any standard. Sneering about agendas is distasteful in this context. Vast majority of us aren't really keeping score or trying to advance anything at all, just horrified, as horrified as we were by 10/7, while 10% hurl insults at each other and lash out at anything anyone else says.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#818

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

[flagged]

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#819

Post by BbzzbB »

digging wrote: post #451
sequoia wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm OK, I read this a bit differently. I read these sections: > One source stated that human personnel often served only as a “rubber stamp” for the machine’s decisions, adding that, normally, they would personally devote only about “20 seconds” to each target before authorizing a bombing — just to make sure the Lavender-marked target is male. > According to the sources, the army knew that the minimal human supervisio…

> What is the "zero-error" alternative approach for dropping bombs in a war, or firing rockets for that matter? Honestly, I'm not sure. Obviously humans make errors of all sorts as well, and even make intentionally unethical decisions. I think the horror of this situation is that it makes war easier to wage. Accepting that all war has costs measured in blood, we should want less war. However, those in control of mili…

>It isn't necessary to destroy Hamas with violence

It isn't possible to destroy Hamas with violence, or apartheid for that matter. Israel has created hatred towards themselves that will last for generations, even if they could kill every last Hamas member, they've made damn sure that a subset of Palestinian (if not broader) youth will reorganize a militia and the cycle of violence will go on.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#820

Post by darkerside »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #818
Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

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Is this meant to excuse the behavior of the Israeli military?
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