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Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

terraformindustries.wordpress.com

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Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#41

Post by noutella »

rhelz wrote: post #19

Fraking has made natural gas so cheap, I can't see these being used for anything but virtue signaling. They claim a breakthrough in converting hydrogen to natural gas, but natural gas is by far the cheapest source of H2. And, given that methane is 80 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2 is, is it really a good idea to be manufacturing it? Inevitably there would be leakage, and it wouldn't take much to leak…

Leakages are indeed an enormous problem. It’s estimated than more than 2% of the gas leaks !

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#42

Post by Loggias »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

[dead]

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#43

Post by car »

How does this compare to using microbes to produce hydrocarbons from CO2 and other waste gases? (NB, not from atmospheric CO2)

Here a recent article on the topic, specifically for making jet fuel, for an industry that would be impossible to electrify.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-024-02136-z

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#44

Post by ajb »

carbonguy wrote: post #17
pfdietz wrote: post #14

One can make natural gas from CO2 captured from air and with hydrogen electrolysed form water. But then one has to ask: why not just use hydrogen directly and skip the inefficiency and cost of direct air capture of CO2 and of making methane? If one is dead set on making a carbon-containing synfuel, why methane and not something more storable, like methanol or higher hydrocarbons? Or, why not use the hydrogen to deoxy…

> why not just use hydrogen directly and skip the inefficiency and cost of direct air capture of CO2 and of making methane? Broadly speaking, one key reason is that we've already got the infrastructure in place for using methane (and other hydrocarbons) whereas we do not have this for hydrogen. Another point is that this really isn't an either-or proposition: if people want hydrogen, then the Terraform electrolyzer c…

In the UK, our gas infrastructure actually used to be used for hydrogen[1], so a lot of it should still work if we were to switch back.

[1] Actually "town gas" which was a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. But I imagine not including the CO would not be a problem.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#45

Post by rini17 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

Seasonal storage. Large amounts of gas can be stored underground.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#46

Post by _Microft »

leesec wrote: post #36

Natural gas is just the beginning, they'll be able to make any hydrocarbon in time

Casey is also very bullish on Musk and his Mars plans. I wouldn‘t be surprised if half of the plan is to have the tech ready to build the methane generation infrastructure for Musk‘s Mars colony.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#47

Post by DenseComet »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

Energy density is much higher, which is important for applications such as aviation.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#48

Post by dr_kretyn »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

Lack of sockets is likely the main one.

Then, lack of the long long cable to the nearest socket.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#49

Post by megaman821 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

Seasonal storage of energy is likely only practical in fuel form. Also, there is no easy pathway to electricity to high temperature heat.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#50

Post by spenczar5 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #38

What are some applications where its worth taking the highest grade energy (electricity) and turning it into a lower grade (eg liquid fuels), rather than electrifying the application? Electricity to motion is significantly more efficient per input energy than burning fuel->heat-> gaseous expansion->drive a piston->convert to rotation chain. What am I missing about this?

You’re missing density of storage. Gasoline and natural gas are in the region of 50 MJ/kg, while batteries are more like 10MJ/kg or lower. That 5x factor is what stops us from having electric airplanes.
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