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Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

terraformindustries.wordpress.com

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Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#21

Post by groby_b »

carbonguy wrote: post #15

As a "carbon industry" observer, this is pretty exciting news. I've had my eye on Terraform Industries for a while and love what they're doing; they're one of the few groups that actually seem to understand the implications of what it will take to shift to a carbon-neutral economy, and their core insight about the economics of atmospheric fuel synthesis is one of those "obvious when you hear it" ideas: solar electric…

It's an excellent way forward because it's not only carbon-neutral, it can also "fall back" to pure CO2 capture should we ever get a decent enough grid & storage mechanisms to afford that.

Really exciting work!

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#22

Post by pydry »

pfdietz wrote: post #14

One can make natural gas from CO2 captured from air and with hydrogen electrolysed form water. But then one has to ask: why not just use hydrogen directly and skip the inefficiency and cost of direct air capture of CO2 and of making methane? If one is dead set on making a carbon-containing synfuel, why methane and not something more storable, like methanol or higher hydrocarbons? Or, why not use the hydrogen to deoxy…

Hydrogen is much more difficult to store.

It escapes easily from any container you put it in and causes hydrogen embrittlement for any metal you try to use to contain it.

Apparently it can be stored in abandoned salt mines and we probably will use them for that eventually but you dont always have one of those handy.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#23

Post by alexb_ »

rhelz wrote: post #19

Fraking has made natural gas so cheap, I can't see these being used for anything but virtue signaling. They claim a breakthrough in converting hydrogen to natural gas, but natural gas is by far the cheapest source of H2. And, given that methane is 80 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2 is, is it really a good idea to be manufacturing it? Inevitably there would be leakage, and it wouldn't take much to leak…

> They claim a breakthrough in converting hydrogen to natural gas, but natural gas is by far the cheapest source of H2.

Are you serious? Water is right there!

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#24

Post by groby_b »

pfdietz wrote: post #14

One can make natural gas from CO2 captured from air and with hydrogen electrolysed form water. But then one has to ask: why not just use hydrogen directly and skip the inefficiency and cost of direct air capture of CO2 and of making methane? If one is dead set on making a carbon-containing synfuel, why methane and not something more storable, like methanol or higher hydrocarbons? Or, why not use the hydrogen to deoxy…

Because we kinda know how to do natgas storage/transport/use at large scale, while we're not quite there on the hydrogen economy.

Higher complexity hydrocarbons likely have higher synthesis costs, and if you want to enter the market, you probably want your pricing as competitive as possible.

Same for the biomass approach.

It is ultimately an approach striving for as much simplicity as possible. That's firmly baked in their culture, too - see their home page :)

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#25

Post by mikeatlas »

rhelz wrote: post #19

Fraking has made natural gas so cheap, I can't see these being used for anything but virtue signaling. They claim a breakthrough in converting hydrogen to natural gas, but natural gas is by far the cheapest source of H2. And, given that methane is 80 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2 is, is it really a good idea to be manufacturing it? Inevitably there would be leakage, and it wouldn't take much to leak…

Their claim is that this method is still yet cheaper than drilling/fracking.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#27

Post by pfdietz »

pydry wrote: post #22
pfdietz wrote: post #14

One can make natural gas from CO2 captured from air and with hydrogen electrolysed form water. But then one has to ask: why not just use hydrogen directly and skip the inefficiency and cost of direct air capture of CO2 and of making methane? If one is dead set on making a carbon-containing synfuel, why methane and not something more storable, like methanol or higher hydrocarbons? Or, why not use the hydrogen to deoxy…

Hydrogen is much more difficult to store. It escapes easily from any container you put it in and causes hydrogen embrittlement for any metal you try to use to contain it. Apparently it can be stored in abandoned salt mines and we probably will use them for that eventually but you dont always have one of those handy.

All those points are overstated.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#28

Post by ilc »

pseudosudoer wrote: post #10
ilc wrote: post #5

April 1 date on the article. Wordpress site. I ain't saying it ain't true, but I await their next press release.

Here's their company page. Might explain the use of word press... https://terraformindustries.com/

It makes something ring hollow then.

Why do the whole high and mightly we're using ASCII thing, then to throw me to WordPress. Certainly a bit of HTML with a few inline images fit the overall goal better.

That said, I wish them the best, and I hope that they dominate their market. :)

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#29

Post by joe_the_user »

carbonguy wrote: post #15

As a "carbon industry" observer, this is pretty exciting news. I've had my eye on Terraform Industries for a while and love what they're doing; they're one of the few groups that actually seem to understand the implications of what it will take to shift to a carbon-neutral economy, and their core insight about the economics of atmospheric fuel synthesis is one of those "obvious when you hear it" ideas: solar electric…

It looks good.

I wish their headline was "natural gas from solar power" 'cause many things labeled "carbon neutral" wind-up being conventional petrochemicals plus some worthless "offsets" baloney.

Re: Terraform makes carbon neutral natural gas

#30

Post by samatman »

Last time I looked into this, Terraform's 1MW reactor can fill a normal LNG truck in 145 days of operation. Or if you prefer, 145 such reactors would be needed to fill one (1) LNG truck per day.

The work they're doing will help prove out DAC, moving it further down the tech adoption curve, which is good. The task of making methane from the air should be performed with multi-GW nuclear reactors, which produce full power 90% of the time they exist, and which can use heat instead of electrolysis to free hydrogen, which is more energetically efficient. The use of an extensive and intermittent power source which only produces electricity is a severe limitation here.

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