Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

mdd.uscourts.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 202 posts

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#171

Post by shakahshakah »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #76
altacc wrote: post #2

I have wondered what the insurance structure for this is and how liable the vessel's owners and insurers are for damage to public infrastructure. Marine insurance is one of the oldest types of insurance and antique in some respects, with large vessels covered by several underwriting firms. So potentially this is a massive financial hit for multiple companies if there is not a limit on liability.

This isn't an insurance lawsuit. Interestingly, it's also not exclusively a ship owner petition. The petition also includes the ship manager . Another poster linked to a USC section protecting the ship owner on the basis of them not knowing anything that caused the loss. So that is what it is. Ok, but why would a ship manager also be able to benefit from such a limitation ? The USC section doesn't say anything about…

While I'm sure they'd love to "win" their petition outright, a major benefit of filing the partition is to force all future legal action through that single court system.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#172

Post by nickburns »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #131
edgineer wrote: post #13

Rebuild cost: $600m [0] I do hope We the People have zealous advocates. [0] https://news.sky.com/story/baltimore-trade-implications-from...

That seems an amazing value. Here in NYC, it costs $50-100M to build a subway elevator.

at quite literally impossible and only a fictionalized accounting to boot. too many cut checks, too many depository accounts, and never enough paper trail to know for sure.

so yeah, maybe—maybe less, maybe more, maybe no one has even the slightest clue, not even within a wildly outrageous range, of the true monetary total cost of anything at public infrastructure scale.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#173

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

keepamovin wrote: post #42
idbehold wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now consider all the people driving around in their cars everyday.

Right, but I think it would be quite the engineering challenge — or, ‘evil genius side quest’, whatever you wanna call it disturbingly — to cause $600 million worth of damage with a sedan car. Tho, YMMV, that’s just me.

The highest third party auto insurance claim I've heard of was £34 million in 2001 (probably about $90 million today).

The driver (of a Land Rover towing a car on a trailer) fell asleep at the wheel and crashed onto train tracks. A passenger express train hit the car and was derailed into the path of an oncoming freight train. 10 people were killed.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#174

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #95
bilekas wrote: post #52

This is actually a really interesting case. Hear me out, a little bit of devil's advocate maybe.. If insurance company is forced to repay the whole cost of the rebuild, estimated it will cost lets say $600M. Tax payer is happy they're not paying via Federal taxes. But, shipping and logistics insurance companies start to ramp up their premiums and those fees are passed on to, eventually, the consumer over the long ter…

You just eliminated the whole point of insurance. If every time the government is going to pay, then the obvious next step would be to get rid of insurance altogether ant everything would be cheaper yet.

They also eliminated the entire point of liability.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#175

Post by COGlory »

bilekas wrote: post #52

This is actually a really interesting case. Hear me out, a little bit of devil's advocate maybe.. If insurance company is forced to repay the whole cost of the rebuild, estimated it will cost lets say $600M. Tax payer is happy they're not paying via Federal taxes. But, shipping and logistics insurance companies start to ramp up their premiums and those fees are passed on to, eventually, the consumer over the long ter…

No, we've already pre-paid for this insurance claim by paying higher prices for goods so that the shipper could be insured. The insurance company doesn't get to claim that they were unprepared for this. What have they been doing with the insurance premiums for the last however many years?

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#176

Post by V__ »

molyss wrote: post #68
bilekas wrote: post #52

This is actually a really interesting case. Hear me out, a little bit of devil's advocate maybe.. If insurance company is forced to repay the whole cost of the rebuild, estimated it will cost lets say $600M. Tax payer is happy they're not paying via Federal taxes. But, shipping and logistics insurance companies start to ramp up their premiums and those fees are passed on to, eventually, the consumer over the long ter…

I’ll play with you: It might not be such a bad thing to increase cost of trans-oceanic transportation. Right now we’re shipping stuff that makes little sense no to produce locally simply because (cost of overseas labor + cost of transportation) Alternatively, I’d suggest that the premiums might not increase that much. Cost of insurance would be (cost of a claimable event)*(probability of such event). I’d hope the lat…

I think this can be applied more generally as: Everything should be priced in. Lots of big problems seem to occure because externalities are passed down to future tax payers. Pollution, climate change, garbage etc.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#178

Post by Scoundreller »

leereeves wrote: post #88
cientifico wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you how is going to play out. The people with less money for lawyers will be held liable. Normally the captain.

Holding the captain liable would be like trying to get a blood transfusion for an elephant from a mosquito.

They could be one of many parties considered liable. Lawyers will justify spending $20k in legal work on themselves for an extra $100ks in recoveries, even if that’s a part of $billions.

Quite possible the captain has their own liability insurance. Dunno how the professionalization works at sea.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#179

Post by Scoundreller »

cientifico wrote: post #65
proteal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former property insurance broker whose clients had big claims ($100Mish) and worked around people who handled the real big claims ($1B+), I can't really tell you with any specificity of how this will play out. All I know is that it will be a huge mess, and the lawyers will argue in court for several years. Ultimately, someone will have to pay to rebuild the bridge. In the event of really big claims, it almost al…

I can tell you how is going to play out. The people with less money for lawyers will be held liable. Normally the captain.

The people harmed with less money for lawyers probably won’t get anything, I can see that happening.

Automakers might get a payout for the shipping delays, but people waiting longer for their new car won’t see any of it.

The people’s commutes that will be X minutes longer for the next while will have to just suck it up.

Same for anyone paying a few percent more for goods that have to be imported through other ports.

Re: Dali owner file petition to cap liability in Baltimore bridge collapse at $43.7M

#180

Post by kjkjadksj »

COGlory wrote: post #175
bilekas wrote: post #52

This is actually a really interesting case. Hear me out, a little bit of devil's advocate maybe.. If insurance company is forced to repay the whole cost of the rebuild, estimated it will cost lets say $600M. Tax payer is happy they're not paying via Federal taxes. But, shipping and logistics insurance companies start to ramp up their premiums and those fees are passed on to, eventually, the consumer over the long ter…

No, we've already pre-paid for this insurance claim by paying higher prices for goods so that the shipper could be insured. The insurance company doesn't get to claim that they were unprepared for this. What have they been doing with the insurance premiums for the last however many years?

And on top of that the insurance company is probably also insured
Post reply on HN