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Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

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Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#171
post #152
post #149

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Well I’m 40 and my partner is 45, but who knows how old we’ll be when/if the shit hits the fan.

I was just joking, because when I looked into immigrating to New Zealand, they had a point system penalized people for being over 40.

That’s totally true, but the point system is cool in that they give a massive boost to special skills like software development.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#172
post #124
post #36

The headline is relatively clickbait-y. Its double their revenue because their revenue is basically 0. Their actual expenses are hundreds of millions, of which this 1.7 million is a drop in the bucket. Once their upfront expenses are paid they will (presumably) be making hundreds of millions/billions in revenue, which means this 1.7m is not particularly important. You can talk about standard complaints of CEOs with p…

CEOs get all kinds of compensation. Business jet travel, security, etc. This line item could be just tax optimization for this guy. I am not trying to defend him, he is getting paid a lot: "On May 5, 2023, the Board granted Mr. Aquila an award of 6,884,682 RSUs. These awards vest on May 5, 2024, subject to continuous service." [1] At current stock price it is ~$20M. Getting outraged about additional $1.7M that was ne…

It would make a difference to the IRS, wouldn’t it?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#173
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his net worth is $400MM+, his insurance my very well require him to fly private.

Is that really a thing? Is private supposed to be more secure because of accidents or because of risk of kidnapping and assassinations? I don’t see a reason why private flights would be less accident-prone than public flights. Edit: looks like private flights are actually much more dangerous than airlines, the insurance would probably prefer if you would fly public… (not my favorite source but the first thing I found…

> Looks like private flights are actually much more dangerous than airlines

Most of the accidents involve small one-engine aircraft that owners personally fly. They're technically "private," but what's relevant here is large private planes like Gulfstreams, Bombardier Globals, Dassault Falcons, Boeing BBJs, and the like..they're safer than airlines.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#174
post #118

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Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

People do fork. Tesla's original was a fork of a Lotus. They got the whole chassis/etc from Lotus, dropped in their own drive train and other stuff. Other reply mentioned paccar. Idk why it doesn't happen more often. I suspect most manufacturers aren't willing to license like that.

But then they ended up using so little of the original Lotus that Elon said they should have started with a blank canvas

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

Using an ICE base platform for EVs doesn't make sense, and there is no EV base platform for sale/license. Companies building the EVs are holding their cards tightly to their chests for competitive advantage.

> Using an ICE base platform for EVs doesn't make sense,

Kind of. Renault's small sized EVs share parts of the platform as some ICE models (e.g. Clio/Renault 5 E-Tech) which allows them to reduce costs of the EV model. Considering their target audience and market segment (small city-focused EV with city-scale range) the tradeoff is perfectly acceptable.

> and there is no EV base platform for sale/license

How do you know this? Renault for instance are in a pretty specific spot, market wise, and they were trying to merge with Fiat-Chrysler before the latter ended up with PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, Opel) in Stellantis. They have some EV tech, especially on the cheap city-focused side (Dacia Spring, Renault Zoe, Renault 5 E-tech), and would probably be open to collaborating / sharing risks. This is purely conjecture of course.

Also, Subaru managed to license Toyota's EV tech.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#176
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real issue here is that a CEO who nobody has heard of and is doing a bad job running the company claims that he needs to fly private as a business expense. It's one think for Zuck or Tim Cook to claim that flying commercial would be dangerous and a waste of time, but the way that attitude has filtered down to very small companies is astounding (especially given the outsized negative impact private jet tra…

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

The board chooses the CEO and his salary; if the board wants to give some of the salary in the form of jet reimbursements it's not really any concern beyond them and the shareholders.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#177
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need at least 400 Million to enter the car manufacturer market. The investment does sound absolutely reasonable at this point.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

Do any of the car manufactorers want to sell you their base model? Even if they did, how would Ford dealers feel about Ford selling rivian the rights to make better Ford cars?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#178

If the reimbursements were solely for corporate travel, it might not be a concern. The CEO here sold his previous company for $6.5 billion [1], so he already owned the jet before starting Canoo. The company reimburses him for corporate travel on it. What's concerning is that Canoo is stacking big losses and living on the edge...it seems like excessive spending for a company that hasn't even made a dime of profit. But…

I am sure these companies are a massive money laundering operation. What does Solera even do or ever did? Prior to the acquisitions?

Solera sold risk management and asset protection software. A company with $1bn+ in annual sales [1] is a money-laundering operation?

Hint - Most ultra-rich people make their money in boring industries you wouldn't even know about.

1- https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/delisted/SLH/solera-holdi...

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#179
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect, starting from the ground up is part of why people are so interested in these companies. The ICE car market is a massive market, which taking a part of required massive long term investment, and would result in you being relegated to just some minor side note. Even Toyota one of the longest biggest players is still seen as kinda "new" compared to BMW and VW, let alone hyundai which is basically a massive st…

Why would anyone think that the current ICE manufacturers will just sit idly by and not get out EV designs at some point? Either on their own, or in collaboration with other legacy manufacturers? They have existing brand loyalty, existing relationships, supply chains, dealership networks etc. etc. that they can make use of even if their designs aren't as good as brand new entrants (and that's assuming brand new entra…

Because for a long time the ICE manufacturers were making half-hearted play attempts at EVs, and Tesla came in and made real EVs and had a huge stock play related to that.

So now the ICEs are scrambling to catch up, and are doing so, but lots of money is flowing around hoping to be the next Tesla.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

The board chooses the CEO and his salary; if the board wants to give some of the salary in the form of jet reimbursements it's not really any concern beyond them and the shareholders.

Also agreed. If shareholders don't want that, they're free to vote him out, or keep him if they're okay with the private flights.
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