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Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

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131–140 of 154 posts

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVidia is making boatloads of money because their driver works and they have a software library called CUDA that accelerates neural networks. Nobody expects AMD to match them, but George thought they could at least write a GPU driver. If AMD can get that driver out, then George could provide a competitor to CUDA (for neutral networks only). They'd both make boatloads of money. However, AMD was less capable than expec…

Why is that, that AMD seemingly can't act like a sane individual would do?

AMD has simply never invested into software. Their code has been atrocious since even before AMD bought ATI. ATI "Catalyst Control Center" was their consumer driver code before Vista and into Windows 7 IIRC, and that was utter trash. Granted, nVidia's drivers were ALSO trash back then, accounting for literally 65% of ALL Vista BSODs.

nVidia decided to redouble their efforts, and now they might still crash occasionally, but are largely way better at driver stability and they brought CUDA into the world at the same time.

AMD decided that shitty software didn't seem to stop them from selling GPUs, and also we're too busy desperately surviving a decade of Intel anti-competitive practices that nearly killed the company, and bet everything on Ryzen. They also worked to make pretty good physical GPU hardware. Meanwhile, their GPUs still couldn't run Blender as fast as a similarly specced nVidia card because their OpenCL implementation was god awful. They ran at literally half the render speed of a similar nVidia GPU. It was stuck on OpenCL 1.x the whole time, because the 2.x implementation was literally broken. They nearly didn't have ANY hardware render solution for an update to the Blender rendering engine in 3.x because OpenCL 1.x literally couldn't do what they wanted, and ROCm is a joke. AMD engineers helped put together an emergency/late breaking fix to create an HIP implementation, and that works, at least mostly.

My pet theory is that not only does AMD not give a fuck about software, but they saw how nVidia was struggling with market segmentation from consumer cards being effective compute cards, and didn't want to run into those same struggles if they had a real CUDA competitor. Instead, they got to rub nVidia's face into the dirt with their GPUs that had way more VRAM, and not worry that it would chew into their professional GPU profit margins, because you can't compute on consumer cards. Oh, I forgot to mention, the whole time this nonsense is going on, AMD is pushing really hard to get their professional GPUs into Supercomputer clusters, and has several premier supercomputer implementations where their GPUs have no problem being used for top level compute tasks, almost like they CAN actually write GPU compute software and just don't give it to consumers.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was particularly hard to listen to himself admit that he basically became unpaid QA for AMD. Like, dude, you’re making the same junior mistake people writing apps for the App Store make. It’s not your platform.

His thesis is that owning a good software platform is a prerequisite for a successful AI hardware company. He is (or was) using AMD as a stepping stone to create and flesh out that software platform (tinygrad) before starting custom ASIC development, instead of going the other way around with a costly ASIC first and trying to develop a software platform after, or trying to push support for an ASIC into someone else's…

Well, I think he's probably right, it's just a shame that he's going through this difficulty. I hope he ends up succeeding in his goals.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm cheering him on, even though his complaints were a little melodramatic. I've really soured on him when he literally went "I'm going to fix twitter search, hire me elon" and then went to public saying "Hey, want an internship? Fix it, and then MIT license your code(so he could use it lol), and maybe we can talk - oh btw I have no real authority to give anyone an internship." He might be a brilliant programmer and…

Yeah, I was feeling similar vibes back when Lex Friedman interviewed him for some self driving stuff back in the day (...I've soured on lex too since he's not really an interviewer/journalist so much as a host/promoter and rarely gets to anything interesting in his talks imo). His work for jailbreaking/actually being able to own the devices we pay for back in the iPhone+PS3 days was and is still inspiring, but I thin…

From the public seat, those exploits are the only thing he managed, and hardly matters a couple of device generations later.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great take. We need more people that are willing and able to jump in and wreck new bullshit machines as they crop up in diverse industries. They can even keep their boastful grandstanding attitude as compensation.

No thanks. We do need people to wreck the bullshit machines, but they don't have to be total asshats. That's not inherent to being that smart.

What if the "wants to wreck bullshit machines" trait often co-occurrs with the "grandstanding attitude" trait? You'd be unnecessarily restricting the applicant pool because you don't like how they express themselves, which seems pretty dumb given that we're being flooded by bullshit machines.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for two things: first thank you for correcting my error is saying "all the MI300" is going to supercompute, I am aware that a few groups are doing awesome stuff with making the platform available to mortals. Second, thank you for being one of the people trying to make the platform available to mortals. As Sheryl used to say when someone did the right thing: "You're doing God's work." Is there a link or a ma…

Thanks! We started the business last year, as a proof of concept before MI300x was even released. After a lot of work to build the necessary relationships, we got a box of MI300x, deployed it into our data center, and immediately onboarded a very large customer. Now that we've completed that PoC phase of the business, we just closed many millions in additional funding that will go purchase many more GPUs. Thanks to o…

We can save the debate about whether AMD can walk and chew gum at the same time :)

The important part is that you’re a (potentially very big) part of the solution: if can get serious adoption via a stemless experience, that’s a major win for free, fair, functioning markets via robust competition sparingly but well-refereed. You’ve won a fan and evangelist at the conceptual level, and I’m sure you’ll be hearing from me about wanting to make sure the stuff I’m moonlighting on supports the platform well, at which time I’d happily do an unbiased write up: I’ve got a bias for functioning markets, not one particular vendor.

Until next time, good luck!

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that, that AMD seemingly can't act like a sane individual would do?

There's a chance they (maybe specifically the lawyers) know something we don't. I mean, maybe they are absurdly incompetent in listening to feedback, while at the same time achieving technically great things in hardware. But after so many years and seeing all the AI money going to the competitor... That seems less and less likely every day.

[deleted]

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that, that AMD seemingly can't act like a sane individual would do?

There's a chance they (maybe specifically the lawyers) know something we don't. I mean, maybe they are absurdly incompetent in listening to feedback, while at the same time achieving technically great things in hardware. But after so many years and seeing all the AI money going to the competitor... That seems less and less likely every day.

Well, the CEO of AMD and the CEO of that competitors are the in the same family. Literally. Maybe they just don’t care which entrance the money takes.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! We started the business last year, as a proof of concept before MI300x was even released. After a lot of work to build the necessary relationships, we got a box of MI300x, deployed it into our data center, and immediately onboarded a very large customer. Now that we've completed that PoC phase of the business, we just closed many millions in additional funding that will go purchase many more GPUs. Thanks to o…

We can save the debate about whether AMD can walk and chew gum at the same time :) The important part is that you’re a (potentially very big) part of the solution: if can get serious adoption via a stemless experience, that’s a major win for free, fair, functioning markets via robust competition sparingly but well-refereed. You’ve won a fan and evangelist at the conceptual level, and I’m sure you’ll be hearing from m…

Thanks for the productive dialog and the fan support. Greatly appreciated!

> We can save the debate about whether AMD can walk and chew gum at the same time :)

It is a huge risk for my business, so it is something that I'm taking very seriously. In a past life, I've run a lot of consumer AMD GPUs, I'm well aware of their positives, and negatives. My feeling is that George didn't factor this risk into his business, and then went into panic mode when he ran into issues. This is exactly why I'm going the "enterprise" route first.

> I’ve got a bias for functioning markets, not one particular vendor.

I strongly concur with this, which is why AMD won't be our only offering. I'd love to get other hardware (including, but not limited to, Nvidia and all others). That said, we're just focused on starting with creating functioning markets first.

Re: Documentation for the AMD 7900XTX

#140
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More concretely, what they open sourced calls closed source functions that run on the GPU which is where all the bugs are, and causes all the crashes. In particular, what they did was open source the drivers but not the firmware , and then when the firmware has bugs nobody outside the company can fix it because it's not open source.

Yes, that's a problem, but it's also a bit of an unfair dunk. After all, your CPU almost certainly runs firmware with all the same issues. Not to mention all other GPUs from all other vendors. Despite all of the noise-making, I don't think anybody has really convincingly made the case that the firmware quality is the main issue here, as opposed to the quality of the rest of the stack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fFUfyT-EyA&t=1840s

This is the most damning commentary on AMD's firmware code quality.

I mean, that's horrifically bad.

To think that is code for the flagship GPU for a company with a market cap of almost 300bn is just crazy.

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