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The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

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Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#11

Post by roywiggins »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #10
munificent wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its physical properties are completely different. Graphite and diamonds have completely different physical properties too, yet both are carbon. They didn't think graphite was literally equivalent to lead. They thought it was another form of lead.

Did they already understand allotropy?

Atomic theory was just barely beginning to be invented at the beginning of the 19th century. Apparently graphite was discovered to be carbon (and not lead) in 1779:

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/inorganic/faq/d...

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#12

Post by dec0dedab0de »

gweinberg wrote: post #5

graphite might look similar to lead, but it's not really plausible that anyone would mistake it for lead, except at first glance. Its physical properties are completely different.

Noone can mistake chilli peppers for peppercorn, but they named it that anyway.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#13

Post by hinkley »

adrian_b wrote: post #8
kazinator wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding had always been that there were never pencils where a rod of lead was encased in wood. However, in the Roman times, styluses were used for writing which were just sharpened rods of lead. Right or wrong, I pinned the etymology on that and didn't give it another thought. How can we be sure that someone's knowledge of those Roman-era instruments didn't influence the etymology of "pencil lead", in spite…

As tools for writing, normal styluses and lead rods, which were both used in Roman times, are distinct. A "stilus" (the modern spelling of the words "stylus" and "style" is a mistake, which was frequent when Latin words had been assumed to be Greek words with Modern Greek pronunciation) was a metal rod that was used to write on wax tablets. The Romans called it either "stilus" or "graphium", the latter form being dir…

You have forgotten another form of carbon - charcoal. It’s not much used for writing, but it does have a niche with artists.

The lead shadows of Pliny the Elder are similarly used by artists to do rough drafts before committing pen to paper. Particularly cartoonists, prior to photoshop layers.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#14

Post by sharkweek »

I remember in like 4th grade I stabbed myself in the leg with a pencil on accident and snapped a piece of the "lead" off in my leg.

My brain spiraled for weeks thinking I had essentially poisoned myself and would be dying shortly.

Finally told my parents, who said "okay lets go talk to the doctor" who, very sweetly, told me that little piece of graphite in my leg would cause essentially no harm.

It's still there, a little blue-ish dot under my skin.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#15

Post by ane »

So what's the truth of the hardness/blackness grade? Did Conte invent it? Because Hardtmuth, one of the large pencil manufacturers, claims otherwise:

"According to the personal notes of Franz Hardtmuth, the marking of pencils using the letter H originates from the family surname Hardtmuth, B means Budweis, or Budějovice in Czech language, and F refers to his first name Franz."

https://www.blog.koh-i-noor.cz/post/the-story-of-iconic-koh-...

Sounds a bit apocryphal to me.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#16

Post by cancerhacker »

sharkweek wrote: post #14

I remember in like 4th grade I stabbed myself in the leg with a pencil on accident and snapped a piece of the "lead" off in my leg. My brain spiraled for weeks thinking I had essentially poisoned myself and would be dying shortly. Finally told my parents, who said "okay lets go talk to the doctor" who, very sweetly, told me that little piece of graphite in my leg would cause essentially no harm. It's still there, a l…

I have the same thing in the palm of my hand - was bumping a pencil along a wall, also in fourth grade, ish. I knew it was graphite and wouldn't hurt me, but I was too afraid of it hurting to winkle it out, and it just healed over.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#17

Post by nkurz »

cancerhacker wrote: post #16
sharkweek wrote: post #14

I remember in like 4th grade I stabbed myself in the leg with a pencil on accident and snapped a piece of the "lead" off in my leg. My brain spiraled for weeks thinking I had essentially poisoned myself and would be dying shortly. Finally told my parents, who said "okay lets go talk to the doctor" who, very sweetly, told me that little piece of graphite in my leg would cause essentially no harm. It's still there, a l…

I have the same thing in the palm of my hand - was bumping a pencil along a wall, also in fourth grade, ish. I knew it was graphite and wouldn't hurt me, but I was too afraid of it hurting to winkle it out, and it just healed over.

I spent some time puzzling over what "winkle" might be a typo for before realizing it was a British verb I was unfamiliar with:

"chiefly British : to displace, remove, or evict from a position"

Apparently the etymology is the periwinkles are difficult to remove from their shells: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/winkle

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#18

Post by inetknght »

sharkweek wrote: post #14

I remember in like 4th grade I stabbed myself in the leg with a pencil on accident and snapped a piece of the "lead" off in my leg. My brain spiraled for weeks thinking I had essentially poisoned myself and would be dying shortly. Finally told my parents, who said "okay lets go talk to the doctor" who, very sweetly, told me that little piece of graphite in my leg would cause essentially no harm. It's still there, a l…

Once upon a time I was stabbed in the knee with a pencil. It's still there 30+ years later. Both the knee and the pencil mark. It doesn't hurt at all.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#19

Post by kitd »

There is actually a (very interesting) Pencil Museum in Keswick in the Lake District, UK, near where those first graphite deposits were found. One fact I learnt was that early on, due to its usefulness and scarcity, it became a hugely valuable commodity, transport had to be done in secret or under guard, and the mine owners became extremely wealthy.

Re: The history of lead pencils and their lack of any lead (2021)

#20

Post by gweinberg »

munificent wrote: post #9
gweinberg wrote: post #5

graphite might look similar to lead, but it's not really plausible that anyone would mistake it for lead, except at first glance. Its physical properties are completely different.

> Its physical properties are completely different. Graphite and diamonds have completely different physical properties too, yet both are carbon. They didn't think graphite was literally equivalent to lead. They thought it was another form of lead.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. People understandably though graphite and diamonds were different, because they seemed so different. Assuming 2 things are fundamentally different because they differ in all observable properties makes sense. Assuming 2 things are fundamentally the same because they are they same color but in no other way similar really doesn't.
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