Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

edweissman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 237 posts

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#81

Post by faucet »

is it only me or there is a (just one) line of code gone wrong on ed's comment handling server?

{"post_id":131434793,"html":"\u003Cdiv class='p_response_container' style='display:none;'\u003E\n\u003Cheader class='clearfix'\u003E\n\u003Ca href=\"http://edweissman.com/it-takes-6-days-to-change-1-line-of-co... class=\"p_view_all_link\"\u003EView All 16\u003C/a\u003E\n\u003Ch1\u003EMost Recent Responses\u003C/h1\u003E\n\u003C/header\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_responses_list clearfix' data-posterous-responses-container\u003E\n\u003Carticle class='p_comment p_response' style='display:none;'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_info'\u003E\n\u003Cspan class='p_icon'\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\n\u003Ctime pubdate='1337295601'\u003E14 minutes ago\u003C/time\u003E\n\u003Ca href=\"http://tomakefast.com\\u003EPJ Brunet\u003C/a\u003E responded:\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_body'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_profile_photo'\u003E\n\u003Cimg alt=\"\" src=\"/images/profile/missing-user-35.png?1337287723\" /\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_text'\u003E\nHilarious, I love it.\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cul class='p_action_links'\u003E\n\u003C/ul\u003E\n\n\u003C/article\u003E\n\n\u003Carticle class='p_comment p_response' style='display:none;'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_info'\u003E\n\u003Cspan class='p_icon'\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\n\u003Ctime pubdate='1337296138'\u003E5 minutes ago\u003C/time\u003E\nkkudi responded:\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_body'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_profile_photo'\u003E\n\u003Cimg alt=\"\" src=\"/images/profile/missing-user-35.png?1337287723\" /\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_text'\u003E\nI agree and disagree at the same time. It does take a ridiculous amount of time to put something in production, unfortunately, but the scenario you described above is probably an exceptional case.\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cul class='p_action_links'\u003E\n\u003C/ul\u003E\n\n\u003C/article\u003E\n\n\u003Carticle class='p_comment p_response' style='display:none;'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_info'\u003E\n\u003Cspan class='p_icon'\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\n\u003Ctime pubdate='1337296154'\u003E5 minutes ago\u003C/time\u003E\nbob responded:\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_body'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_profile_photo'\u003E\n\u003Cimg alt=\"\" src=\"/images/profile/missing-user-35.png?1337287723\" /\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_text'\u003E\nDoesn't inventory cost $ and space? Maybe CFO should be involved too.\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cul class='p_action_links'\u003E\n\u003C/ul\u003E\n\n\u003C/article\u003E\n\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_form p_logged_in'\u003E\n\u003Ch1\u003ELeave a Comment\u003C/h1\u003E\n\u003Cform action=\"/responses/create\" class=\"new_comment clearfix\" id=\"new_comment\" method=\"post\"\u003E\u003Cdiv style=\"margin:0;padding:0;display:inline\"\u003E\u003Cinput name=\"authenticity_token\" type=\"hidden\" value=\"F6F7vP+9I0xtnokVneiKN6klXpPRM8ziSWl/D/arZxI=\" /\u003E\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_not_authorized p_comment_section'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_additional_fields'\u003E\n\u003Clabel for=\"comment_name\"\u003EName:\u003C/label\u003E\n\u003Cinput id=\"comment_name\" maxlength=\"80\" name=\"comment[name]\" size=\"40\" type=\"text\" /\u003E\n\u003Clabel class=\"p_comment_email\" for=\"comment_comment_email\"\u003ELeave this field blank to comment.\u003C/label\u003E\n\u003Cinput class=\"p_comment_email\" id=\"comment_comment_email\" maxlength=\"80\" name=\"comment[comment_email]\" size=\"40\" type=\"text\" /\u003E\n\u003Clabel for=\"comment_toast\"\u003EEmail:\u003C/label\u003E\n\u003Cinput id=\"comment_toast\" maxlength=\"80\" name=\"comment[toast]\" size=\"40\" type=\"text\" /\u003E\n\u003Clabel for=\"comment_url\"\u003EHomepage:\u003C/label\u003E\n\u003Cinput id=\"comment_url\" maxlength=\"80\" name=\"comment[url]\" size=\"40\" type=\"text\" /\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Caside class='p_login_options'\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_asterisk'\u003E\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Ch1\u003EWant to skip this stuff?\u003C/h1\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003ELogin with any of the following:\u003C/p\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_login_buttons'\u003E\n\u003Ca href=\"http://posterous.com/login?flow=newcomment\u0026amp;jumpto=h... class=\"p_posterous_login\"\u003ERegister or login to Posterous\u003C/a\u003E\n\u003Ca href=\"#\" class=\"p_twitter_login\" data-posterous-jumpto-url=\"http://edweissman.com/it-takes-6-days-to-change-1-line-of-co... data-posterous-post-id=\"131434793\" data-posterous-redirect-url=\"http://posterous.com/oauth/init_oauth_and_redirect/?ssod=edw... data-posterous-twitter-login-button=\"true\"\u003E\u003Cimg alt=\"Sign in with Twitter\" src=\"/images/site/sign_in_with_twitter.png?1337287723\" /\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\n\u003C/aside\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_section'\u003E\n\u003Clabel for=\"comment_body\"\u003EComment:\u003C/label\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_area'\u003E\n\u003Ctextarea cols=\"40\" id=\"comment_body\" name=\"comment[body]\" onChange=\"if (this.scrollHeight \u0026gt; this.clientHeight \u0026amp;\u0026amp; !window.opera){this.rows += 1;}\" onKeyPress=\"if (this.scrollHeight \u0026gt; this.clientHeight \u0026amp;\u0026amp; !window.opera){this.rows += 1;}\" rows=\"5\"\u003E\u003C/textarea\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_comment_section'\u003E\n\u003Cinput id=\"comment_post_id\" name=\"comment[post_id]\" type=\"hidden\" value=\"131434793\" /\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class='p_submit'\u003E\u003Cbutton button=\"true\" class=\" action_button\"\u003E\u003Cspan class=\"\"\u003EPost this Comment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/button\u003E\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\u003C/form\u003E\n\u003C/div\u003E\n\n\u003C/div\u003E\n","responses":[{"name":"PJ Brunet","body_html":"Hilarious, I love it.","created_at":"2012/05/17 16:00:01 -0700","body":"Hilarious, I love it.","post_id":131434793,"id":11028186,"display_name":"PJ Brunet","comment_type":"comment","display_url":"http://tomakefast.com,allowed:true,display_photo:/images/pro...},{"name":"kkudi","body_html":"I agree and disagree at the same time. It does take a ridiculous amount of time to put something in production, unfortunately, but the scenario you described above is probably an exceptional case.","created_at":"2012/05/17 16:08:58 -0700","body":"I agree and disagree at the same time. It does take a ridiculous amount of time to put something in production, unfortunately, but the scenario you described above is probably an exceptional case.","post_id":131434793,"id":11028197,"display_name":"kkudi","comment_type":"comment","display_url":null,"allowed":true,"display_photo":"/images/profile/missing-user-35.png"},{"name":"bob","body_html":"Doesn't inventory cost $ and space? Maybe CFO should be involved too.","created_at":"2012/05/17 16:09:14 -0700","body":"Doesn't inventory cost $ and space? Maybe CFO should be involved too.","post_id":131434793,"id":11028199,"display_name":"bob","comment_type":"comment","display_url":null,"allowed":true,"display_photo":"/images/profile/missing-user-35.png"}]}

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#82

Post by badclient »

ajross wrote: post #72
badclient wrote: post #52

This shit happens at my job and leaves me feeling depressed and at times questioning my own skills because I know and my bosses know that on my part, I just had to make a tiny, tiny change. But when you have a dozen such experiences, I feel like something is wrong with me because when the dust settles, this was a one line code change that took me a week to push to production. It also makes my bosses question my estim…

This doesn't sound like a process problem at all, actually. Really it's the reverse: your work environment is a mess, no one has the ability to do their own job except to bug you to do things they need. And that's a disaster too, but it would be helped by adding process, not hurt. Also, dude: learn to say no. Learn to prioritize for yourself instead of expecting your slag pile of a management structure to do it for y…

And if your workplace environment really doesn't permit that, move on.

Doing just that :)

It's basically a startup with 10 of us where I am the only in house developer.

I've tried many things like asking folks to Skype me instead of walking over to my desk or calling my name. I've gone to great lengths to get em to understand why skyping to get my attention is different than other ways. None of these guidelines really lasted more than ana few hours.

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#83

Post by pikewood »

badclient wrote: post #52

This shit happens at my job and leaves me feeling depressed and at times questioning my own skills because I know and my bosses know that on my part, I just had to make a tiny, tiny change. But when you have a dozen such experiences, I feel like something is wrong with me because when the dust settles, this was a one line code change that took me a week to push to production. It also makes my bosses question my estim…

This will keep happening if you keep saying OK.

Try something like, "Can I get back to you in an hour? Boss wants me to finish this top priority item for him."

And if Boss asks you if you can finish it next week, say no. You're being asked to give an estimate, and it doesn't help to say "Yes, if [this thing doesn't happen which I know it will]". If they want you to be the startup guy, then act like you're the one in charge of your own schedule.

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#84

Post by hkmurakami »

badclient wrote: post #52

This shit happens at my job and leaves me feeling depressed and at times questioning my own skills because I know and my bosses know that on my part, I just had to make a tiny, tiny change. But when you have a dozen such experiences, I feel like something is wrong with me because when the dust settles, this was a one line code change that took me a week to push to production. It also makes my bosses question my estim…

Here's my suggestion: have your boss talk to Jenn and make her understand that you'll be spending the next day working on the boss' request. Any interruptions would have to go through the Boss, so that all parties are aligned.

This seems like a communication problem between the managers. (I can speak from experience, since I messed this up once when I reallocated our engineers' time without fully being on the same page as the engineering manager)

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#85

Post by EternalFury »

I can relate to that. Maybe 70% of the defect corrections I make in our highly complex and optimized code base are less than 10 lines worth of code.

It can take between between 24 hours and a week to figure out what those few lines should be, though. And that is extremely frustrating.

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#86

Post by ori_b »

badclient wrote: post #82
ajross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sound like a process problem at all, actually. Really it's the reverse: your work environment is a mess, no one has the ability to do their own job except to bug you to do things they need. And that's a disaster too, but it would be helped by adding process, not hurt. Also, dude: learn to say no. Learn to prioritize for yourself instead of expecting your slag pile of a management structure to do it for y…

And if your workplace environment really doesn't permit that, move on. Doing just that :) It's basically a startup with 10 of us where I am the only in house developer. I've tried many things like asking folks to Skype me instead of walking over to my desk or calling my name. I've gone to great lengths to get em to understand why skyping to get my attention is different than other ways. None of these guidelines reall…

Did you respond with anything other than "I asked you to skype me" when they ignored your request? If not, there's your problem.

People do what works. Reinforce their bad behavior, and you have a problem.

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#87

Post by vgnet »

faucet wrote: post #81

is it only me or there is a (just one) line of code gone wrong on ed's comment handling server? {"post_id":131434793,"html":"\u003Cdiv class='p_response_container' style='display:none;'\u003E\n\u003Cheader class='clearfix'\u003E\n\u003Ca href=\" http://edweissman.com/it-takes-6-days-to-change-1-line-of-co... class=\"p_view_all_link\"\u003EView All 16\u003C/a\u003E\n\u003Ch1\u003EMost Recent Responses\u003C/h1\u003E\n…

Hey, thanks for wrecking page display for me! :)

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#88

Post by DougBTX »

badclient wrote: post #82
ajross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sound like a process problem at all, actually. Really it's the reverse: your work environment is a mess, no one has the ability to do their own job except to bug you to do things they need. And that's a disaster too, but it would be helped by adding process, not hurt. Also, dude: learn to say no. Learn to prioritize for yourself instead of expecting your slag pile of a management structure to do it for y…

And if your workplace environment really doesn't permit that, move on. Doing just that :) It's basically a startup with 10 of us where I am the only in house developer. I've tried many things like asking folks to Skype me instead of walking over to my desk or calling my name. I've gone to great lengths to get em to understand why skyping to get my attention is different than other ways. None of these guidelines reall…

Tim Schafer, of http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/doublefine/double-fine-a... fame, has a note on his door until 11am in the morning saying, don't knock, writing. Could you make progress on projectY if you made a deal to not work on projectX until 11am? To not even open your office door?

(FWIW, this is a classic Quality of Service (QoS) algorithm, where traffic on ProjectY is given dedicated bandwidth (2 hours in the day) so that it isn't swamped by traffic from ProjectX.)

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#89

Post by vacri »

theoj wrote: post #70
ajross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The point bengl3rt was making, I assume, is that cavalier avoidance of process is a bad thing because it allows mistakes to happen that would be caught. That much is true. But the assumption that's wrong is that all processes avoid mistakes. Clearly they don't. And some of the examples here are just plain cargo cult misapplications of good ideas. The point behind code review is to catch design flaws in new c…

This quote is appropriate here: Skilled people without a process will always find a way to get things done. Skill begets process. But process doesn’t beget skill. Following a recipe won’t make you a great chef – it just means you can make a competent bolognese. Great chefs don’t need cookery books. They know their medium and their ingredients so well that they can find excellent combinations as they go. The recipe be…

Er... great chefs do need cookery books. They may not refer to them as often, but you won't find many chefs out there without a collection of cookery books. They still use recipes for things they're not familiar with.

Besides, skill may beget product, but it doesn't necessarily beget process.

Re: It Takes 6 Days to Change 1 Line of Code

#90

Post by Dove »

protomyth wrote: post #66
Dove wrote: post #50

That "legacy code must be brought up to current standards whenever it's touched" policy doesn't seem very wise. I'm all for practical refactoring, but it's a major decision to be treated with care when it comes to legacy code. You don't always want to invite it. I certainly wouldn't want to enforce it. I mean, it's one thing when your oldest legacy code is two years old, and it's all one program. It's something else…

Yes, for an emergency change (change or there will be layoffs), this is a rather dangerous policy. The goal of any emergency fix should be "do as little as possible to solve problem". I get the feeling that too many people in the chain did not treat this as an emergency. It seems very business as usual. When a company is talking layoffs, it is an emergency.

Yeah, I agree. The first time he told someone "Philip wants this done quickly" and they said, "Sorry, it's policy," the next move -- at least my next move -- would have been to walk to Philip's office and say, "Will you come tell this lady that this change is more important than that policy?"

I mean, they don't have a way to know it's really an emergency. Every engineer thinks everything's an emergency. There's nothing like the guy in charge standing there while they work to communicate THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EMERGENCY.

Post reply on HN