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Skin in the Game

lucumr.pocoo.org

41–50 of 70 posts

Re: Skin in the Game

#41
> Skin in the game

In the title but never elaborated on. (Kind of like CDO.[1])

Anyone who makes an effort has skin in the game. Unless your PR was made by ChatGPT or you are sending out spam PRs, you have skin in the game. (Of course there’s an asymmetry here since the maintainer has to deal with this spam. But isn’t it like email? Eventually with enough spam it will be tolerated to by-default ignore solicitations based on heuristics.)

Someone can spend a week on a PR and get immediately rejected because the maintainer liked neither the approach nor the feature. Okay but wait, you say, why didn’t you just ask about the design before you made the PR? Because some projects will politely say “send patches” if you first do a preliminary feeler-inquiry. They won’t even tell you what the chances of such a change being accepted and will just give you a generic “we will judge it on its merit and usefulness”.[2]

> In a sense this is a generic rant about missing the “good old times” (that probably never were), where people talked to each other eye to eye.

They’re simulating eye-to-eye/real life interactions. In real life I can be eight different people under my real name because physical interactions are localized. On the public Internet, under the same name, everything is in the same place.

And the Internet has gotten more hostile over the decades.

[1] https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/3/26/rust-cdo/

[2] I have a particular project in mind

Re: Skin in the Game

#42

Pseudonyms are fine, as long as each person has only one, and multiple alts are guaranteed to be extremely costly to create. People are primarily just afraid of being duped or tricked somehow by someone hiding behind multiple identities, otherwise they don’t treat pseudonyms much differently. Of course there’s a practical difficulty in making sure creating the first pseudonym identity has a low bar but also to make s…

> Pseudonyms are fine, as long as each person has only one, and multiple alts are guaranteed to be extremely costly to create.

You’ve invented Real Identity #2. So now you have effectively two real identities, a step up from just one but you don’t have the pseudonym capability of reinventing yourself whenever you want.

Re: Skin in the Game

#43
Anonymity is a many-faceted issue. I have various personas on the Internet, but the truth is that any serious research can probably link them together.

Why do most people want anonymity (or pseudonymity)? Most of us are not in any sort of actual danger. If someone links my identities together, nothing horrible is going to happen. At worst, my employer will get some nasty email by someone I offended with an uncareful remark, which would have no consequences beyond a confused question.

Is it just a matter of comfort? Is it not wanting to have to be so careful what we say? Is it because we actually have different facets to our personalities, and want to give each of those facets expression?

Anyway: My open source projects are linked to my real identity. That's not an aspect of my identity I have any reason to hide. I don't see why anyone should. Heck, if you're young, your contributions may be important to your career: "Look what I did, you should hire me!"

Re: Skin in the Game

#44
Seems like a purely legal problem to have some form of real world handle. For such problems, I'd also expect a legal solution.

For example, the license could include something like: if we cannot identify and contact you in a reasonable amount of time, you have no say. Or: contributions from a certain amount of lines of code require a stable contact etc.

I don't see a problem of liability in general. And for special cases, one can still require verification. I can very well imagine that people develop critical software open source. For example, a governmental app, or a software for a nuclear power plant. Then, the public can also have a look and see how things are operating. However, open source doesn't mean that anybody is invited to contribute IMHO.

Re: Skin in the Game

#45
post #44

Seems like a purely legal problem to have some form of real world handle. For such problems, I'd also expect a legal solution. For example, the license could include something like: if we cannot identify and contact you in a reasonable amount of time, you have no say. Or: contributions from a certain amount of lines of code require a stable contact etc. I don't see a problem of liability in general. And for special c…

A lot of things could be done, most projects don't do much that is extra work. In practice most projects do something that is within what is socially acceptable, what people do and what does not require extra effort. The fact that even large projects like the Linux kernel are much more relaxed about pseudonymous contributions today to me is at least an indication that this is where things are going.

Re: Skin in the Game

#46
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Part of that is getting older. A decade ago I contributed to Python under the name "Demur Rumed" & that's what they put in the 3.6 contributor list. Back then I worked at a company that didn't use GitHub so it was all personal stuff that I'd put under that name Since then I started working in open source companies that are operating on GitHub. An early meeting someone asked "who's this Demur Rumed making rand…

> Since then I started working in open source companies that are operating on GitHub. An early meeting someone asked "who's this Demur Rumed making random pull requests?" sheepishly I declared myself, "Please update your profile with your real name I make a new GitHub account for any new job I start using my company email I never use my personal accounts for anything work related I once got a message from HR telling…

> I make a new GitHub account for any new job I start

Beware of GitHub's terms of service, then: "you may not have more than one free Account" https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...>

Re: Skin in the Game

#47
I choose to post under my real name, it forces be to think harder and more often about saying some smartass thing (which still happens anyways because I grew up on 4chan or whatefer, slashdot I guess mostly but the internet used to have a rough sense of humor as the default), and to apologize earlier and more often if I get called out on it by someone who is right.

But I’m not sure it nets out in my favor anymore: it’s just a huge handicap to be totally honest and transparent in a world that will really hold past mistakes against you in a very arbitrary way with the only consistent theme being that “important” people rarely face any consequences (some might say these days, even real scrutiny).

My current solution-in-progress is a handle (b7r6) that’s a decent Unix name, has my initials in it so no secret if it matters, but kinda changes the tone to like, “I’m a real person but I kinda want to be treated like an opaque ID unless it’s damn important.”

It’s a sock on the doorknob, not a lock, but I can’t think of anything better just yet.

Re: Skin in the Game

#48
post #4

TIL that untypical is a word that means the same as atypical. It's funny. I think of anonymity as something that has been part of the Internet going back through at least the last three decades of my experience with it. Back in the day you had anonymous retailers, let alone people using pseudonyms. It was very much part of the fabric. If anything, it feels like anonymity on the Internet is harder to achieve these day…

I think the internet always had anonymity. I do think it was easier to be anonymous on the surface but at the same time there were so many fewer people on the internet that it wasn't that hard to uncover the person behind the curtain.

I do however think that this is unrelated to the Open Source angle. You will still find this sentence on Eric S. Raymond's "How To Become A Hacker" guide which in some ways shows how much this attitude has changed in the years since:

> Concealing your identity behind a handle is a juvenile and silly behavior characteristic of crackers, warez d00dz, and other lower life forms. Hackers don't do this; they're proud of what they do and want it associated with their real names. So if you have a handle, drop it. In the hacker culture it will only mark you as a loser.

I don't think a lot of people will still subscribe to that idea today.

Re: Skin in the Game

#49

I choose to post under my real name, it forces be to think harder and more often about saying some smartass thing (which still happens anyways because I grew up on 4chan or whatefer, slashdot I guess mostly but the internet used to have a rough sense of humor as the default), and to apologize earlier and more often if I get called out on it by someone who is right. But I’m not sure it nets out in my favor anymore: it…

I've gradually migrated all my accounts to pseudonyms over the past few years, also citing arbitrary social punishment and unlimited downside of sharing my identity, combined with (more) limited upside.

Re: Skin in the Game

#50

> Skin in the game In the title but never elaborated on. (Kind of like CDO.[1]) Anyone who makes an effort has skin in the game. Unless your PR was made by ChatGPT or you are sending out spam PRs, you have skin in the game. (Of course there’s an asymmetry here since the maintainer has to deal with this spam. But isn’t it like email? Eventually with enough spam it will be tolerated to by-default ignore solicitations b…

Most open source projects have not just the final source published, but also all communication for patches, features and their relevant discussion.

That could be on GitHub, a traditional mailing list, or some other hosting platform.

You can’t tell in advance how your work will be received, but you can empirically tell how others work has been received. And even compare the communication styles.

And it’s not rocket science that well reasoned patches, with tests, splitting out separate commits, explaining the reason for the change would be better received than a typo laden one-liner, “I needz it”.

It’s up to the submitter to match the flow of the project.

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