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Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

vitalik.eth.limo

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Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#491

Post by rglullis »

PKop wrote: post #459
rglullis wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not arguing they all mean it, or they've been right. I'm arguing they all said it. Then this whole discussion is pointless. Why should we care about what people say or believe, unless it can be backed by their actions? Instead of putting them all in the same bucket because on what they said , let's judge them based on what they did . And Vitalik has consistently shown that his work is aligned with the stated pl…

You started the thread by saying you trust the intentions of a coin project based on them saying they're not in it for the money. I just meant to point out that this was no special characteristic, as they all have done this. "Crypto" has been professing "use cases" since the beginning. >Then this whole discussion is pointless. Yes it certainly was, since you wanted to argue that you believe him, yet got caught up in…

No, I said that he has argued (to justify the project decisions and work) based on his view.

I never said "I believe on what he has promised". I said "all he has done and delivered has been consistent with his professed views". It's completely different, and I honestly do not see how you could interpret what I said in such a twisted way.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#492

Post by Terretta »

chrispeel wrote: post #441
zachmu wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article boasts of ethereum L2 being able to support 500 TPS thanks to blobs. That's at least two decimal orders of magnitude away from being a global payment solution. It's a joke.

Where did you get that number? Vitalik gave goals of 1.33 MB per second in blob space, and a compressed tx size of 25 bytes. This gives around 50,000 transactions per second, which seems like a worthy goal.

I'm curious what you think the latencies of 50,000 distributed transactions becoming a consistent chain add up to?

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#493

Post by TimJRobinson »

Terretta wrote: post #492
chrispeel wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get that number? Vitalik gave goals of 1.33 MB per second in blob space, and a compressed tx size of 25 bytes. This gives around 50,000 transactions per second, which seems like a worthy goal.

I'm curious what you think the latencies of 50,000 distributed transactions becoming a consistent chain add up to?

The reason L2s can scale that high is every machine doesn't have to process every transaction.

Each L2 is its own chain that uses its own sequencer/s. The blocks from this chain are then compressed into a single blob of data with a ZK proof that the transactions are valid. The validators on L1 only need to verify that ZK proof matches the hash of the submitted data, which can be done in a few ms even if the L2 did 1M+ transactions.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#494

Post by defiamazing »

arandomusername wrote: post #482
defiamazing wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one would use it because people don't actually want to send money internationally badly enough to create a profit opportunity. They want to interact with DeFi protocols, that's why USDC exists on eth, once the DeFi protocols die then so will USDC. There's no good other way because people don't actually want to send money internationally badly enough to create a profit opportunity.

Huh? International payments are a HUGE industry. What are you talking about? Western Union and Transferwise are both huge companies that specialize in international payments. DeFi protocols are a benefit, but even without it USDC would still persist. There's no good other way because of extreme regulations that harm law abiding citizens under the guise of AML and other junk.

If your application is evading AML then your scale will always be limited. I don’t know how you could possibly feel like that’s a serious pitch. Sounds like, “We’ll just evade the law”. I guess ICOs got away with it for a bit.

They want it sure, but again, not enough to create a profit opportunity. Profit is revenue minus costs, so there's a lot of revenue opportunity (from the bank deposits by the way, not the payments), but the costs are huge. The revenue has to justify the legal headache involved with processing payments in under a minute. That's why the only live solution needs a DeFi bubble to support it.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#495

Post by TimJRobinson »

dinobones wrote: post #57
pa7x1 wrote: post #46

I'm going to leave here a few dashboards that might be interesting: See Ethereum scale day by day (today Ethereum is doing 160 tps, more than 10x its initial throughput): https://l2beat.com/scaling/activity You can now settle your transactions on rollups for mere cents: https://fees-growthepie.streamlit.app/ Neat dashboards regarding blob usage: https://dune.com/hildobby/blobs What's coming... With the current number…

Thank-you for the helpful links. Can you share some resources to learn about data availability sampling? Also, have folks invented a cheap/fast way of going from L2 L2 without having to do an L1 tx? I fear that L2s may never be adopted due to network segmentation, but if it's possible for all L2s to interchange with each other cheaply, then it's just as good as L1 IMO.

I recently wrote a post covering all the ways L2s will intoperate and share liquidity with each other: https://paragraph.xyz/@blueyard/how-ethereum-can-solve-l2-li...

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#496

Post by arandomusername »

defiamazing wrote: post #494
arandomusername wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? International payments are a HUGE industry. What are you talking about? Western Union and Transferwise are both huge companies that specialize in international payments. DeFi protocols are a benefit, but even without it USDC would still persist. There's no good other way because of extreme regulations that harm law abiding citizens under the guise of AML and other junk.

If your application is evading AML then your scale will always be limited. I don’t know how you could possibly feel like that’s a serious pitch. Sounds like, “We’ll just evade the law”. I guess ICOs got away with it for a bit. They want it sure, but again, not enough to create a profit opportunity. Profit is revenue minus costs, so there's a lot of revenue opportunity (from the bank deposits by the way, not the payme…

Not sure why you are bringing in ICOs in discussion with USDC/stablecoins and international payments.

> The revenue has to justify the legal headache involved with processing payments in under a minute.

See how AML regulations just harm law abidding citizens?

Please explain how defi bubble is supporting it.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#497

Post by [deleted] »

arandomusername wrote: post #496
defiamazing wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your application is evading AML then your scale will always be limited. I don’t know how you could possibly feel like that’s a serious pitch. Sounds like, “We’ll just evade the law”. I guess ICOs got away with it for a bit. They want it sure, but again, not enough to create a profit opportunity. Profit is revenue minus costs, so there's a lot of revenue opportunity (from the bank deposits by the way, not the payme…

Not sure why you are bringing in ICOs in discussion with USDC/stablecoins and international payments. > The revenue has to justify the legal headache involved with processing payments in under a minute. See how AML regulations just harm law abidding citizens? Please explain how defi bubble is supporting it.

[deleted]

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#498

Post by defiamazing »

arandomusername wrote: post #496
defiamazing wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your application is evading AML then your scale will always be limited. I don’t know how you could possibly feel like that’s a serious pitch. Sounds like, “We’ll just evade the law”. I guess ICOs got away with it for a bit. They want it sure, but again, not enough to create a profit opportunity. Profit is revenue minus costs, so there's a lot of revenue opportunity (from the bank deposits by the way, not the payme…

Not sure why you are bringing in ICOs in discussion with USDC/stablecoins and international payments. > The revenue has to justify the legal headache involved with processing payments in under a minute. See how AML regulations just harm law abidding citizens? Please explain how defi bubble is supporting it.

AML is good, no I don’t. My turn to ask the questions. Is there literally any scenario where you'd accept that maybe crypto isn't actually useful and maybe it is just a big scam? Think about it hard, otherwise you'll waste years of your life in an internet libertarian larp. Bro USDC is multisig'd, it isn't decentralizing anything and it doesn't even need a blockchain except to interact with DeFi.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#499

Post by doublepg23 »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #469
doublepg23 wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the work with Podcasting 2.0 is moving things into apps like Fountain or Castamatic. By all accounts, people are way way more likely to engage if they don't have to leave their app. There's crypto-less features that Podcasting 2.0 adds like livestream notifications and transcriptions. Apple actually just added transcriptions to their app officially!

What's wrong about the web for listening to podcasts? Why do I need an app? And couldn't the "Support us via lightning: 1f73ac220b9..." link have a protocol like "lightning://" prefixed, so when the users clicks it, their preferred payment method pops up?

Actually the Podcasting 2.0 app Fountain does have a web app! https://www.fountain.fm/radio

By all accounts though (podcasting stats) people almost always listen to them on mobile devices, an app being the logical choice there.

The hosted lightning wallet Alby does have similar functionality you're thinking of, it's built as a browser plugin though. https://getalby.com

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#500

Post by doublepg23 »

lawn wrote: post #122
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Reading through the page, that sounds super complicated though. Couldn't the podcasts simply put a lightning invoice (Which is just a string of text I guess?) on their website with a text like "Support us via Lightning: 1f73ac220b9..."?

With a regular cryptocurrency they could just post an address or QR code and anyone can send it using a wallet at any time (no need for them to be online or anything).

Lightning allows single sats worth of micro-payments in real-time, perfect for tossing a few bucks someone's way vs. paying much higher fees and waiting for blocks.

The Podcasting 2.0 spec also includes the "Boostgrams" feature allowing you to send messages to the creator with your payment.

Speaking of offline support the recently announced Hedgehog protocol builds off of lightning and is much more asynchronous.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/super-testnet-introduces-hed...

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