Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

lareviewofbooks.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 79 posts

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#51

Post by defrost »

ggm wrote: post #47
presbyterian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She’s a winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature, National Book Critics Circle Award, Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, Presidential Medal of Freedom, and the National Book Foundation’s Medal of Distinguished Contribution to American Letters; one of the most celebrated writers in American literature. I understand that you may not personally like the book of hers you read, but to suggest that people read her just because the…

People feel like this about a lot of Nobel authors. Patrick White won, I've never finished any book of his after "a fringe of leaves" and Thomas Mann just bored me to tears. To the other side, the ones i loved, Hermann Hesse was un-putdownable. Likewise Doris Lessing. A lot of people dislike Lessings writing style. So.. it's all about what you like. But I'd take writing advice from Ms Morrison seriously.

My questioning of Patrick White began with hearing that he wanted Ken Russell to direct a film based on Voss ...

That seemed like an, ahhhhhh, interesting choice of auteur.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#53

Post by dustyleary »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #38
halayli wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking sides but this is argument from authority fallacy. Whether she is a Nobel Prize winner or not is irrelevant to answering OP's comment and whether her books are page turners or majority find them uninteresting.

All you have to do is go on Rotten Tomatoes and compare the professional critic's rating with the audience rating. If your preferences generally align with professional critics, you are in the minority as far as I can tell - at least for movies. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for books, vindicating OP, but I don't know of an appropriate data source that could settle this.

I thought it was considered "well known" that the Rotten Tomatoes audience rating is not trustworthy because of ballot stuffing by the film studios.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#54

Post by Ma8ee »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #38
halayli wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking sides but this is argument from authority fallacy. Whether she is a Nobel Prize winner or not is irrelevant to answering OP's comment and whether her books are page turners or majority find them uninteresting.

All you have to do is go on Rotten Tomatoes and compare the professional critic's rating with the audience rating. If your preferences generally align with professional critics, you are in the minority as far as I can tell - at least for movies. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for books, vindicating OP, but I don't know of an appropriate data source that could settle this.

The two groups looks for very different things in the media. One care deeply about it and appreciates many different aspects of it, and sometimes the intellectual challenge is part of it. They are utterly bored by most books and films.

The other group wants to relax and be entertained, not solve an intellectual puzzle.

Many are somewhere in between. I don’t care about an odyssey through some neo-Marxist mystery, but are utterly bored by Marvel iteration 25.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#55

Post by grepLeigh »

rtpg wrote: post #46
grepLeigh wrote: post #17

"On the other is a rejection from Morrison, sometimes brusque yet typically offering something more than an expression of disinterest—notes on craft, character development, the need for more (or less) drama. But also: Autopsies of a changing, and in many ways diminishing, publishing industry; frustrations with the tastes of a reading public; and sympathies for poets, short story writers, and other authors drawn to co…

I've been on the receiving end of "thoughtful" rejection letters. Some have been helpful, but some really served to cement the subjectivity of the whole thing. The "funniest" one is one where I in fact knew the person who got the job. I received a nice and long rejection letter explaining all the points they found off for me. I was too aloof during the interview process itself (thinking I was a good fit), and many of…

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If you didn't like the vibe of the rejection feedback, can you imagine how miserable you might have felt hearing similar feedback at an annual perf/compensation review?

I think we do ourselves a disservice with terms like "hard skills" (which I'm assuming you elided to just "skills" in your post; please forgive me if I'm mistaken).

I've been at the receiving end of culture fit rejections too. It's so rough to hear what basically amounts to "seems like you might be capable of doing the job, but we're not convinced we want to work with you."

I didn't crack that mindset until I started making hiring decisions. Teams are what deliver in the long run, so it's important to stack a balanced team that gels. Having the skills to do the job is certainly important, but equally important was knowing stuff like...

Will this person feel challenged and happy here? Do they have room to grow? Are they coachable; how do they handle feedback (defensive or receptive)?

It takes anywhere from 2-6 months to get a software engineer fully ramped and operational, depending on seniority. It also takes 6-12 months (on top of that) to ethically handle someone that's not working out due to a bad culture fit. Ideally, the company has an environment that will work for the person, but that's often not the case.

Almost every time I've had to fire someone, it wasn't about skills (skills can be taught) - it was because I looked past a clear culture mismatch.

After I personally had to fire someone I shouldn't have hired in the first place, I gained new perspective about all the times I was rejected for "culture fit."

Anyway, I hope some of this helps take the sting away. There's a better job for you out there, and I'm rooting for you to find it.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#56

Post by LightBug1 »

Out_of_Characte wrote: post #7
presbyterian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She’s a winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature, National Book Critics Circle Award, Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, Presidential Medal of Freedom, and the National Book Foundation’s Medal of Distinguished Contribution to American Letters; one of the most celebrated writers in American literature. I understand that you may not personally like the book of hers you read, but to suggest that people read her just because the…

>but to suggest that people read her just because they’re required to is absurd Its not, source: the OP Your comment made me realise how much I hated being required to read X because of all the exact reasons you mentioned above. Just because what I've read didn't win a nobel prize doesn't mean I cant find it subjectively better.

Another way to think of this: often/for-some, none of the above has anything to do with the qualities of the author - but a failing of the eductational system/style.

I remember being forced to read some books in high school. I hated them.

When I returned to them later in life, by choice, I absolutely loved them.

This is why I disregard the debate above.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#57

Post by [deleted] »

basementcat wrote: post #16
Kye wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's possible to appreciate a book as literature but not want to ever read it again. The Bluest Eye (for example) is a rare glimpse into the horrors of racism and sexism, especially as both intersect with standards of beauty. It's not a book I would pick up without a grade at stake though. I think I would wonder about someone who actually likes it. It's a horrifying read.

Perhaps this is not unlike how many of my friends and colleagues questioned why I chose to visit places like Auschwitz while I was on vacation in Eastern Europe. I try not to limit the books I read, films I watch and places that I visit to those that aren’t intellectually and/or emotionally challenging and difficult. Or maybe I’m just weird.

[deleted]

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#58

Post by ghaff »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #52

Is the gatekeeper function is diminished a bit by electronic publishing ?

Yes and No.

Yes, insofar as you can trivially publish and be on Amazon or your website. Doesn't mean anyone will find you of course.

No, as in historically at least, getting published through a major publisher opened up the possibility of book tours, reviews in major publications, bookshelf space in stores, and various types of editorial assistance. That's all generally less the case than it used to be though.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#59

Post by jjgreen »

ByQuyzzy wrote: post #3

I was forced to read her book in school, I didn't care for it. One wonders what percentage of her readers read her willingly.

"Forced to read" is itself a swine. I can't abide Shakespeare for the same reason, and I understand that he's rather well thought of as a writer.

Re: Toni Morrison's Rejection Letters

#60

Post by soneca »

maroonblazer wrote: post #2

I was hoping for a link to all of her rejection letters but alas, none is provided. I guess we have to visit the Random House archives at Columbia University’s Rare Book & Manuscript Library.

The same. Not necessarily a link, but more and longer quotes, rather than short quotes and interpretation of them.
Post reply on HN