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Notes on El Salvador

mattlakeman.org

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Re: Notes on El Salvador

#91

Post by cjbgkagh »

fvdessen wrote: post #9

Gang crime seem to be a common weakness of democracies. There's a notable list of countries that had to resort to elect a quasi-dictator to get rid of gangs. As my hometown is coming to grip with a bubbling gang war, I wonder if there is a better way.

I think people forget that universal suffrage and male suffrage are pretty recent phenomenon, so when talking about democracies we should understand that historical democracies were very different. As such this weakness may be more of a character of modern universal suffrage democracies. There might be a middle point between everybody voting and one person voting that would be more optimal.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#92

Post by wolverine876 »

yichi wrote: post #26
fvdessen wrote: post #9

Gang crime seem to be a common weakness of democracies. There's a notable list of countries that had to resort to elect a quasi-dictator to get rid of gangs. As my hometown is coming to grip with a bubbling gang war, I wonder if there is a better way.

Dictatorship is very good at combating crime if it's under good hands (which itself is a tall order imo), just look at Singapore, the problem with dictatorship is the lack of accountability and 99% of dictators simply suck at governing hence democracy is usually better since most dictators have a severe case of Dunning–Kruger effect. People like Bukele and Lee Kuan Yew are very few and far between.

Do you have evidence of the first sentence? Or is it circular?: If crime goes down, they are 'good' dictators.

What about the victims of those dictators, who lose lives and families and freedom? They don't much benefit from the 'good'.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#93

Post by [deleted] »

searealist wrote: post #82
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you under the impression that the bureaucracy class does not have a political leaning/allegiance? We know it does, 95% of DC votes for the people that want larger government.

The "deep state" organizations skew 90%+ Democrat.

[deleted]

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#94

Post by wolverine876 »

roshin wrote: post #89

If the extremely low crime rate is true, that is amazing. However, my concern is that as a de facto dictator, he can fudge the statistics. Just like Mussolini was credited for making the trains run on time only to later be found out that he simply forced the news to report that the trains ran on time. Although, if, as the author writes, people on the street love him and they all claim that crime is down. Then maybe t…

When the government is the most powerful gang, with all the firepower of government, then they can seize power and overcome other gangs. But that doesn't reduce the gangs in people's lives.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#95

Post by nemothekid »

rablackburn wrote: post #86
nemothekid wrote: post #84

This is a great article; I didn't think I would read the whole thing but AFAIK, its a reasonable thorough account on the rise of Bukele. As an aside, I find it incredibly amusing that the China-funded library is decorated with rather Western culture - Harry Potter, Star Wars, and even Mario. Even Chinese money is used to uphold American cultural hegemony.

> (...) and even Mario Cool Japan would like a word with you ;)

I know Mario (and Pokemon) displays are Japanese, but they are still interesting given China's relationship with Japan (although the rest of the gerontocracy Asia doesn't have a particularly favorable view of Japan either).

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#96

Post by bugglebeetle »

starspangled wrote: post #69
billllll wrote: post #34

It's crazy how popular authoritarian demagogues have gotten around the world. His campaign, mannerism, and treatment of media and opposition can be a cut and paste of a bunch of different politicians of the world. At the end of the day though, I really hope it all works out.

What's crazy is just how terrible the globalist neoliberal political agenda and the mindless cookie cutter politicians they produce everywhere have been, that people are thoroughly fed up and are looking for alternatives, no matter how bad.

> globalist neoliberal political agenda

Bukele pitches crypto at CPAC, so it’s frankly hilarious you think he resides outside this order.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#97

Post by blackhawkC17 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #90
fvdessen wrote: post #9

Gang crime seem to be a common weakness of democracies. There's a notable list of countries that had to resort to elect a quasi-dictator to get rid of gangs. As my hometown is coming to grip with a bubbling gang war, I wonder if there is a better way.

> Gang crime seem to be a common weakness of democracies. I've read many histories and that hasn't been a problem. I've lived all my life in democracies and it's never been a problem anywhere that I've lived. I also don't see a correlation. Countries with high levels of corruption, of every form of government, have organized crime problems. Haiti has a very serious gang problem but never much democracy. You might not…

Democracy has largely worked and ushered in widespread economic and social development in the West.

The issue is that many cultures are quite incompatible with democracy, unlike the West.

Many countries are still stuck in a culture of tribalism and corruption and keep voting horrible leaders (the vast majority of Africa and a few in Asia and Eastern Europe).

But I agree with you that people should have a say in who leads them. If they keep voting horrid leaders, that’s a problem they brought on themselves.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#98

Post by 1270018080 »

roshin wrote: post #89

If the extremely low crime rate is true, that is amazing. However, my concern is that as a de facto dictator, he can fudge the statistics. Just like Mussolini was credited for making the trains run on time only to later be found out that he simply forced the news to report that the trains ran on time. Although, if, as the author writes, people on the street love him and they all claim that crime is down. Then maybe t…

I think this reduction in crime is only temporary. You still have a poor country full of desperate people, and it's only a matter of time before the criminal enterprise vacuum gets filled by the next generation. The slate did get wiped clean, but the root cause is still there.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#99

Post by wolverine876 »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #91
fvdessen wrote: post #9

Gang crime seem to be a common weakness of democracies. There's a notable list of countries that had to resort to elect a quasi-dictator to get rid of gangs. As my hometown is coming to grip with a bubbling gang war, I wonder if there is a better way.

I think people forget that universal suffrage and male suffrage are pretty recent phenomenon, so when talking about democracies we should understand that historical democracies were very different. As such this weakness may be more of a character of modern universal suffrage democracies. There might be a middle point between everybody voting and one person voting that would be more optimal.

Historical humanity was nothing like what you have now, a product of generations of modern democracy which has yielded the most free, most wealthy, most prosperous places and times in the history of humanity.

For ~95% of human (homo sapien) history, we were hunter-gatherers. Everything else is a recent phenomenon. Even starting with settled, post-hunter-gatherers, democracy wasn't common at all until the last couple centries. We left that past behind for a reason, and live far, far better now.

> There might be a middle point between everybody voting and one person voting that would be more optimal.

Who gets to decide that? No doubt you would be willing to let others rule over you, taking away your freedom and power? Whoever doesn't have a seat at the table is certain to be victimized by those in power.

Re: Notes on El Salvador

#100

Post by blovescoffee »

muststopmyths wrote: post #21

Great article, but I do have one quibble. The author says El Salvador was not an interesting country to visit to him. Based on my personal experience the countryside is beautiful, the beaches are great and the people are lovely. Yes, the cities are "ugly" but I didn't mind San Salvador at all. I'm not the type to seek out nightlife though. It would be a shame to miss it if you're in the area.

Honest question, what do you mean be “if you’re in the area?” Like near San Salvador or in Latam? Or what area
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