Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5 • Hacker News Board

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#191

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

Scandiravian wrote: post #88

lostlogin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's not like you can bootstrap yourself or grow organically like Startups. So if they have a effectively built monopoly, chopping down the maximum they can charge via regulation would seem sensible wouldn’t it?

I think that's difficult to implement. There's a risk that companies might end up not launching new products on the US market There's several factors that impact US drug prices. For instance FDA approvals are significantly more costly than EMA ones and the bargaining power of healthcare providers is worse compared to a single payer system I have no knowledge of US laws, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kin…

Regulation has hit insulin pricing. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#192

Post by Scandiravian » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

pfdietz wrote: post #188

Scandiravian wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have a source for that?

Since the price of Ozempic in France is 1/10th the price in the US, you either admit France is not paying their share of the development costs, or you think the US price is way excessive even taking development into account.

The price is not set to solely recoup the development cost. It's set to produce a profit. Secondly, Novo has probably made sales for around 80-100 billion dollars for Wegovy and Ozempic at this point. Given that 20%-25% of that are from sales in the EU, that's somewhere along the lines of 16-25 billion dollars, more than enough to recapture the cost of development already

The price in the US is higher because the US has created a system, that prioritise corporate interests above that of the individual. The price of these drugs are low in Europe because the population fought for affordable healthcare (among other things)

I definitely think that the price of healthcare in the US is excessive, not just the price of Ozempic. The reason for that is not that other countries are free-riding, but because the US voters continuously have voted for politicians that put corporate interests above those of their constituents

Healthcare providers in the US are free to band together to improve their bargaining power when purchasing drugs, just like most countries in the EU does

That'll however require that the US starts electing officials who actually work in the interest of the public

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#193

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 1:53 AM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #31

eliben wrote: post #22

Adobe facing pressure as study finds $99 program can be made for $0

Let’s be reasonable here: CDNs aren’t free. They might be spending a couple of cents per user! But yeah, people might not like the implementation or idea of intellectual property, but that’s what’s happening here. Pretending it’s something else makes it hard to argue about it.

you're missing the point I think. if the first pill wear charged a billion dollars, the ones after could go for $5 each. same argument for Adobe.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#194

Post by FireBeyond » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 1:55 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #189

FireBeyond wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly the US pays for the cost of the research while the rest of the world just pays for the cost of production. Top 10 pharma companies, 5/10 are US (2 UK, 2 Swiss, 1 French). 4 of the top 6 for profit margins (from 43%(!) to 19%) are US (Merck is the only outlier, 9th, at 10%). 4 of the top 5 for Sales and Marketing Spend (both on raw dollars and as a percentage of revenue) are US. 3 of the bottom 5 for R&D spe…

Keep in mind that marketing is a bit complicated - very few countries allow direct to consumer marketing. I think kits just the US and New Zealand. Obviously there would still be marketing in other countries, but a heavy US presence likely skews things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertisi...

Fun fact: the main reason it was legalized in New Zealand was heavy US pressure and lobbying over trade agreements and there’s been substantial pressure to get rid of it since then.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#195

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:25 AM UTC

huytersd wrote: post #152

lostlogin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an awful lot of sympathy for the drug company in this thread. You are correct, research and approval is expensive. But at some point there is a limit. Things like insulin are long paid off, and the pricing there has generated controversy. People have been charged $1000 a month for it [1]. What’s fair? They are screaming out to be regulated when they behave so badly, and that’s what’s happened with insulin. […

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#196

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:41 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #64

eliben wrote: post #22

Adobe facing pressure as study finds $99 program can be made for $0

It’s not quite the same, although I’m assuming that no one needs Adobe to stay alive.

how is it any different

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#197

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:42 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #48

karles wrote: post #9

Producing it is not the hard part. Researching it is... And you are not paid for your research "up front". It's added to the cost afterwards.

There is an awful lot of sympathy for the drug company in this thread. You are correct, research and approval is expensive. But at some point there is a limit. Things like insulin are long paid off, and the pricing there has generated controversy. People have been charged $1000 a month for it [1]. What’s fair? They are screaming out to be regulated when they behave so badly, and that’s what’s happened with insulin. […

so should they charge $1b for the first pill and then $5 thereon? what is the argument you're making?

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#198

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:47 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #87

zachmu wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people complain about being forced to pay thousands a month for insulin, they're talking about the newest synthetic insulins that were developed very recently at substantial costs. They could take the older insulins for $50 a month, no one is stopping them. It's just that those older products are less convenient.

So why is older insulin more expensive in the US than elsewhere, by a large margin? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cost-of-insulin-by-country/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA788-2.html https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-i...

the fact that noodles cost 10x as it does in Canada? cost of labor and minimum wages

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#199

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:48 AM UTC

RealityVoid wrote: post #160

pstrateman wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eli Lilly was the first commercial producer of insulin at any significant scale. Genentech developed biosynthetic human insulin using engineered ecoli. Eli Lilly produced the first of the modern synthetic insulin analogs. Literally every major breakthrough except the initial bovine extracts were done in the US.

Novo Nordisk is based in Denmark and they did a lot of research. Of course, cherry picking the stuff Eli Lilly brought first makes it seem they are the ones driving the thing forward but it only makes sense in the wider contact and when compared with what other have done first as well.

Novo piggybacked on a ton of research especially with metformin done in the US. Let's not be delusional that Denmark is a bastion of cutting edge biological research

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#200

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 2:49 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #107

pstrateman wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the last one makes the distinction between modern synthetics and basic insulin. Frankly the US pays for the cost of the research while the rest of the world just pays for the cost of production. If you want to fix the cost of insulin products (and many other drugs) in the US you need to figure out how to make everybody else pay for the true costs. Edit: also your last source there doesn't even know what it's tal…

The argument that the US is paying for everyone else’s drugs is often made in defence of big pharma, but their profits make it hard to swallow. In recent times the US hasn’t really shown any other other signs of chasing socialist policy where it subsidises the rest of the world.

perhaps most of the research would not be incentivized in a socialist society? it's not like the talent doesn't exist elsewhere, but US embrace of capitalism is a factor in the research development research.