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Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

fortune.com

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Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#151

Post by tacticalturtle »

pstrateman wrote: post #58
lostlogin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an awful lot of sympathy for the drug company in this thread. You are correct, research and approval is expensive. But at some point there is a limit. Things like insulin are long paid off, and the pricing there has generated controversy. People have been charged $1000 a month for it [1]. What’s fair? They are screaming out to be regulated when they behave so badly, and that’s what’s happened with insulin. […

Insulin isn't a single product. If you're not distinguishing between insulin extracted from a horse circa 1922 and a modern synthetic analog, well that's just not being honest. There's good arguments that the modern synthetic analogs are overpriced, but that's a more subtle argument.

One bit of nuance here is that you cannot buy FDA approved non-human insulin in the U.S.

That’s not because of an action by the FDA, but just that the manufacturers stopped selling it between 1998 and 2006:

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/frequently-asked-questions-popular...

So your only option is to buy the modern day synthetic analogs - or illegally import the old stuff, which the FDA notes here it has the right to block, but may allow under exceptional circumstances.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#152

Post by huytersd »

lostlogin wrote: post #48
karles wrote: post #9

Producing it is not the hard part. Researching it is... And you are not paid for your research "up front". It's added to the cost afterwards.

There is an awful lot of sympathy for the drug company in this thread. You are correct, research and approval is expensive. But at some point there is a limit. Things like insulin are long paid off, and the pricing there has generated controversy. People have been charged $1000 a month for it [1]. What’s fair? They are screaming out to be regulated when they behave so badly, and that’s what’s happened with insulin. […

[flagged]

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#153

Post by TaylorAlexander »

karles wrote: post #9

Producing it is not the hard part. Researching it is... And you are not paid for your research "up front". It's added to the cost afterwards.

I agree, someone has to pay for the research.

Stories like this seem to pretty clearly represent the hazards of private funding for drug research. Publicly funded research and possibly publicly funded drug production could eliminate this issue.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#154

Post by pfdietz »

Scandiravian wrote: post #102
pfdietz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because those other countries are free riders. I think we should do the same thing in reverse on limiting CO2 emissions. How does that sound?

Can you elaborate on how other countries are free riders? It's not like the board at Novo has a board meeting where they decide "we hate the US so lets charge them more for our products" The simple fact is that the US has higher drug prices because it has created a healthcare system that allows pharmaceutical companies to charge much more for their products The way to lower drug prices is to change the system to prev…

They have monopsonies. The drug maker has a choice of either losing some operating profit or going along with the price they set. The free riding is in these countries not paying a price that pays their share of the development cost of the drug.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#155

Post by aceofspades19 »

Scandiravian wrote: post #23

I think the complexity of the issue isn't really reflected by the article. The most obvious points that are missing are the risks associated with developing a new drug, the costs of research, and the regulatory requirements from the FDA Since pharmaceutical companies are, for the most part, publicly traded they're beholden to stock holders to create a profit. If they stop doing that they're in trouble If the ability…

No, publicly traded companies are beholden to act in the interests of the shareholders which in practicality is fairly vague. All companies are sort of designed to turn a profit or try to as they generally need that to continue existing but there is no legal requirement that they need to create a profit or maximize it, publicly traded or not. Obviously, companies do try to maximize profit as it makes everyone involved money but they don't have to.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#157

Post by Ekaros »

pfdietz wrote: post #154
Scandiravian wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how other countries are free riders? It's not like the board at Novo has a board meeting where they decide "we hate the US so lets charge them more for our products" The simple fact is that the US has higher drug prices because it has created a healthcare system that allows pharmaceutical companies to charge much more for their products The way to lower drug prices is to change the system to prev…

They have monopsonies. The drug maker has a choice of either losing some operating profit or going along with the price they set. The free riding is in these countries not paying a price that pays their share of the development cost of the drug.

These companies are not selling drugs at loss in these countries. And these countries are not forcing the sale of drugs in the first place. The companies choose to take some profit over none. That does not make smarter countries that do negotiation anyway free riders.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#158

Post by lxgr »

gtvwill wrote: post #138
lxgr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it ethical for a doctor to accept payment for life-saving services, then? A much more interesting discussion could be had around who pays for it (and how, and how the prices come to be as high etc.) – because somebody ultimately does.

Nope it's not. They can get paid a wage from gov and charge nothing. Private Healthcare in its entirety is unethical. Shouldnt exist. Full stop.

That's exactly the more interesting discussion I meant. Who pays the doctor, nurse, pharmaceutical companies, how are wages and prices negotiated etc.

But I hope you agree that in all of these models, the doctor does in the end get paid, i.e. accepts payment? I never said that the patient should be the one paying them directly. But if nobody does, there will be no doctor.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#160

Post by RealityVoid »

pstrateman wrote: post #137
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of insulin shows a great deal of involvement and progress made by researchers in several countries, and the US would probably not even rank as first among them.

Eli Lilly was the first commercial producer of insulin at any significant scale. Genentech developed biosynthetic human insulin using engineered ecoli. Eli Lilly produced the first of the modern synthetic insulin analogs. Literally every major breakthrough except the initial bovine extracts were done in the US.

Novo Nordisk is based in Denmark and they did a lot of research. Of course, cherry picking the stuff Eli Lilly brought first makes it seem they are the ones driving the thing forward but it only makes sense in the wider contact and when compared with what other have done first as well.
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