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Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

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Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#111
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people complain about being forced to pay thousands a month for insulin, they're talking about the newest synthetic insulins that were developed very recently at substantial costs. They could take the older insulins for $50 a month, no one is stopping them. It's just that those older products are less convenient.

So why is older insulin more expensive in the US than elsewhere, by a large margin? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cost-of-insulin-by-country/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA788-2.html https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-i...

Because almost nobody actually pays those prices

> One key limitation of this study is that most of our analyses used manufacturer gross prices, not manufacturer net prices after rebates and other discounts are applied.16 Given the generally competitive insulin market, rebates in the United States are substantial (Mulcahy, Schwam, et al., 2021; Dickson et al., 2023). After applying a 76 percent manufacturer gross-to-net reduction, U.S. prices were roughly twice as high as those in other countries (compared with nearly ten times as high without the discount). We caution that these results likely underestimate the magnitude of the price differential because we were unable to estimate similar gross-to-net discounts in other countries. If manufacturer net prices in at least some non-U.S. OECD countries are lower than their manufacturer gross prices, the ratio of U.S. to other-country prices would be higher. In addition, because of data limitations, we applied a single U.S. gross-to-net reduction across all insulins. Actual product-specific gross-to-net discounts likely vary along product characteristics (for example, prescription versus over the counter and timing category). As a result, our estimated ratios of U.S. to other countries’ prices for specific insulin categories likely reflect measurement error.

As far as I can tell they also aren't attempting an apples to apples comparison, they're lumping all "long lasting" insulin drugs together. There is no such drug as "insulin", or even "long-lasting insulin". There are dozens of insulin analogs being sold at an incredible range of prices, easily over 10x from the most expensive to the cheapest.

https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/research/how-much-d...

My default take on this kind of analysis is that people in the US are wealthier and are therefore paying for the newer, more effective, more expensive insulin drugs than people in other countries. I'm happy to be proven wrong on this but I haven't ever seen that analysis, they always conspicuously avoid direct comparisons of the same drugs.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#112
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? EU have never gone after Apple or Google because of their prices. This isn't Apple. Novo Nordisk doesn't make medicine that only work if your other medicine is made by them or force you to use their payment card (?!?!?). If your point is the price then the US could go after every single US medicine company.

Absolutely they should.

That point is a bit different than comparing to Apple and Google.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is older insulin more expensive in the US than elsewhere, by a large margin? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cost-of-insulin-by-country/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA788-2.html https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-i...

Only the last one makes the distinction between modern synthetics and basic insulin. Frankly the US pays for the cost of the research while the rest of the world just pays for the cost of production. If you want to fix the cost of insulin products (and many other drugs) in the US you need to figure out how to make everybody else pay for the true costs. Edit: also your last source there doesn't even know what it's tal…

> Frankly the US pays for the cost of the research while the rest of the world just pays for the cost of production.

Oh come the fuck on, this has been the talking point since the early 2000's. Surely nobody still believes this horse shit. Phizer by itself raked in 50 billion last year alone.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#114

I find it a bit jarring that first reaction from the American public to foreign companies finding success in the USA is think about nationalising them. You see this in this thread, but also with TikTok. It's especially strange given the usual total economic dominance of the USA over the rest of the world. Did big tech get so rich by charging low prices ? Is the rest of the world 'subsidising' the Silicon Valley ?

[deleted]

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's not like you can bootstrap yourself or grow organically like Startups. So if they have a effectively built monopoly, chopping down the maximum they can charge via regulation would seem sensible wouldn’t it?

I think that's difficult to implement. There's a risk that companies might end up not launching new products on the US market There's several factors that impact US drug prices. For instance FDA approvals are significantly more costly than EMA ones and the bargaining power of healthcare providers is worse compared to a single payer system I have no knowledge of US laws, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kin…

No such law here in the states, just a political atmosphere where some people adore the idea of socialism and others see it as the coming of the end of times. Combine that with a highly complex industry structure that’s been entrenched for decades, and you end up in a situation where it’s near impossible to pass laws that actually structurally change our system.

(It’s almost the opposite, in fact, where our courts have expanded the Commerce Clause over time to allow the federal government the ability to regulate close to any economic activity.)

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#116
post #9

Producing it is not the hard part. Researching it is... And you are not paid for your research "up front". It's added to the cost afterwards.

I'm not Pharma industry expert but ... I'm pretty sure it's much the same as venture capital. That is to say that's it's not that expensive to R&D it, certainly compared to the eventual sale price, but it's carrying the cost of the hundred potential drugs that never made it to market that's the killer.

It’s even riskier than VC, because the capital requirements in pharma per venture are _significantly_ higher.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#117
post #53
post #9

Producing it is not the hard part. Researching it is... And you are not paid for your research "up front". It's added to the cost afterwards.

Society contributed to that research in the form of education, academia, infrastructure, ...

And Novo Nordisk contributed back to society. By a lot. Large part of earnings goes to Novo Foundation, which is used to help people in Denmark and make it to a nicer country for people (even though its already amazing country).

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#118
post #16

Novo Nordisk is now Europe’s most valuable company. Congrats to them.

Their market cap is also bigger than the GDP of their home country (Denmark) As a Dane that's pretty terrifying to me (see Nokia and Nortel)

Apples to oranges comparison. Revenue to GDP is better.

Novo Nordisk $35 billion in revenue.

GDP of Denmark:$400 billion.

Their revenue is roughly 9% of GDP.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is older insulin more expensive in the US than elsewhere, by a large margin? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cost-of-insulin-by-country/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA788-2.html https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-i...

Only the last one makes the distinction between modern synthetics and basic insulin. Frankly the US pays for the cost of the research while the rest of the world just pays for the cost of production. If you want to fix the cost of insulin products (and many other drugs) in the US you need to figure out how to make everybody else pay for the true costs. Edit: also your last source there doesn't even know what it's tal…

The history of insulin shows a great deal of involvement and progress made by researchers in several countries, and the US would probably not even rank as first among them.

Re: Novo Nordisk facing pressure as study finds $1k drug can be made for $5

#120
post #2

Ozempic is blowing up on TikTok. Celebs and young people are using it left and right. This is wildly popular and there are resellers and apps popping up everywhere to make it easy to get prescriptions. "Ozempic face" has become a meme as people try to guess who is using it. Several of my neighbors are admittedly using it. And they've lost 30, 40+ pounds in a matter of months. Months . This is a diabetes drug. There h…

>This is a diabetes drug.

It was developed as a drug that increases insulin response, but it also appears to have a substantial impact on CNS processes controlling food cravings and other types of desire.

Given that, it’s possible we’ve stumbled upon the mechanism responsible for genetic differences in how we put on weight, whether that’s appetite, metabolic differences or both.

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