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When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

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Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#201

Post by anal_reactor »

s3tt3mbr1n1 wrote: post #111
jedberg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone else is telling you to leave or try a power play, but food for thought -- you may actually be less valuable now in your new role because you aren't experienced in it. If you just moved from IC to manager, you might be a pretty new manager. It's normal for managers to have reports that make more than them. Just because you manage them doesn't make you more valuable. I'm not saying this is the case for you in…

That’s very insightful and the argument I would expect if I were to start discussions about salary. How would you counter this? I would also say I’m more qualified for the job than those that are applying now, so I’m not sure if this really is applicable to me.

> How would you counter this?

"I asked for a promotion, not for a complete career switch".

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#202

Post by wakawaka28 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #173
wakawaka28 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the right to do it, but your coworkers might become bitter and envious if you make more than them. You have to judge how mature your coworkers are and whether it would cause trouble for you if they made a complaint to your manager. For example, if you are on a team of like 5 people, it could be impossible for them to maintain your anonymity as they say "Why am I making less than others?" You might also imagi…

That's all true. I've usually asked co-workers I'm friends with, and believe we can both be mature enough, if they want to exchange pay info. I've also told a few people what my salary was when I'm leaving a company, and tell them to share it freely. Everything you say is true though, it can cause a lot of drama if people start having hard feeling over pay. This is why companies sometimes tell people not to share the…

>How are the two related? Why does being paid less cause you to take longer to find a new job?

Being paid less didn't actually make me take longer to find another job. But I looked for other jobs to get more money. My point is, simply knowing you are paid less/unfairly is not a silver bullet. Most companies will refuse to give raises on demand, on principle. You most likely can't just get a new job right off either or you would have just done it. So you'll be stuck for months or even years knowing how much less you make than your coworkers. Nobody thinks they'll mind knowing the truth, because they underestimate their own ego and how difficult it is to get more money.

Most businesses would rather pay someone new and unproven significantly more than you're asking rather than give you, say, a random 10% raise. It kinda makes sense, because there's no limit to what you can ask for. Most non-tech people seem to resent how much more we make as well. So for various reasons, they don't want to pay you more and/or don't believe you are worth more, and you have to prove it to them by leaving.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#203

Post by slim »

s3tt3mbr1n1 wrote: post #111
jedberg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone else is telling you to leave or try a power play, but food for thought -- you may actually be less valuable now in your new role because you aren't experienced in it. If you just moved from IC to manager, you might be a pretty new manager. It's normal for managers to have reports that make more than them. Just because you manage them doesn't make you more valuable. I'm not saying this is the case for you in…

That’s very insightful and the argument I would expect if I were to start discussions about salary. How would you counter this? I would also say I’m more qualified for the job than those that are applying now, so I’m not sure if this really is applicable to me.

maybe it's no the right time to negotiate your salary ? given there is competition for your job position and your competency is not proven. why not wait till next year ?

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#206

Post by ProllyInfamous »

s3tt3mbr1n1 wrote: post #112
bboygravity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read a book or watch some Youtube videos about negotiating (in general)?

Anything you would recommend, specifically for salary negotiations?

Cambell's "Start with NO" is a great book to read.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#207

Post by mancerayder »

mooreds wrote: post #176
Saulivar wrote: post #90

There was an article at Forbes that said employees who stay with the company for more than 2 years are underpaid by as much as 50%. So why do they stay for so long? Humans are resistant to change. Speaking of myself, when I was working as a programmer, finding a new job meant going through endless interviews with leetcode tests even though I had 15 years experience. Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that pra…

I have contracted about 1/2 my career. I love the freedom and the honesty about outcomes and money. I missed the benefits (esp group health insurance) and the sense of teamwork.

How do you get new contracts without using recruiters, is the million dollar question.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#208

Post by sjy67 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #50
theshrike79 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies should understand when their business hangs on people, you need to keep the people happy. Hiring people off the street for more money than people with 20+ years of experience isn't a good way to keep experienced workers employed.

The problem is - historically it hasn't bitten companies badly enough that they stop doing it. On aggregate, you can get away with massively underpaying your top talent and overpaying new hires - most of which aren't good and will go to other companies before they're even moderately productive. I question why they're so obsessed with hiring so many new people to do basically nothing. That's the reason they have to ov…

Actually quite a lot. You can check the glassdoor and then search the companies market cap over the years. One company I research recently, Philips seem to have this problem 15 years ago. Compounding effected today, it is just a very small insignificant company. Meanwhile it gave birth to titans like ASML.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#210

Post by mooreds »

mancerayder wrote: post #207
mooreds wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have contracted about 1/2 my career. I love the freedom and the honesty about outcomes and money. I missed the benefits (esp group health insurance) and the sense of teamwork.

How do you get new contracts without using recruiters, is the million dollar question.

Wrote more about that here: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3552
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