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Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

thedrive.com

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Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#41

Post by akira2501 »

mike_d wrote: post #31

Sure, some police somewhere have probably been sold a unit by one of the dozens of companies that have tried to commercialize this. They are a cute toy with very little practical use. Most departments already have much better capabilities that allow them to do passive tracking (air units or other technologies) or mutual aid agreements with a larger department or a county/state asset that can.

Air units aren't cheap. Dedicating a dozen units to a chase isn't cheap. Insurance and damages aren't cheap. The police should have a plethora of capabilities so they can size their solution to the level of danger encountered and have additional options when a particular solution isn't available in a given situation.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#42

Post by afavour »

CSMastermind wrote: post #39
nixgeek wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

License plate readers (LPR) are common in cities and on motorways in UK; there are “Average Speed” zones where the LPR is accomplished by cameras mounted on overhead gantries spanning miles. Speeding tickets can be issued automatically if you break the speed limit between gantries. It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Note tha…

It sounds frankly dystopian, and I hope that this never comes to my country. The government has no business tracking the movements of its citizens outside of an active criminal investigation and only then within well defined paramaters.

It does feel like a very stereotypically American view to be absolutely aghast at the idea of the government tracking the location of cars while being entirely permissive of private companies doing the same and reselling that data to anyone and everyone that wants it (including the government, ironically)

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#43

Post by akira2501 »

mulmen wrote: post #40
nixgeek wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

License plate readers (LPR) are common in cities and on motorways in UK; there are “Average Speed” zones where the LPR is accomplished by cameras mounted on overhead gantries spanning miles. Speeding tickets can be issued automatically if you break the speed limit between gantries. It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Note tha…

> It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Very different cultures. The US is still a culture of personal accountability and freedom. If you aren't hurting anyone you can do as you please. The UK skews toward rules for the sake of rules. Sadly the US is also moving in that direction, but mercifully still trails the UK.

It's the long tail of free speech. You can't stop someone from publishing information about how to defeat such a device. It would become common knowledge very quickly and would be used easily by criminals with specialized toolsets available on several different levels of marketplace.

In the UK, you can much more easily wrap all that up, and deny existence to those markets and even to import of that equipment.

And it's beyond culture. The UK holds an active monarchy and a hereditary house of parliament. The citizen simply does not have the same status and is unavoidably a "subject."

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#44

Post by akira2501 »

afavour wrote: post #42
CSMastermind wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds frankly dystopian, and I hope that this never comes to my country. The government has no business tracking the movements of its citizens outside of an active criminal investigation and only then within well defined paramaters.

It does feel like a very stereotypically American view to be absolutely aghast at the idea of the government tracking the location of cars while being entirely permissive of private companies doing the same and reselling that data to anyone and everyone that wants it (including the government, ironically)

Disabling government technology is a crime. Interfering with third party data collection efforts is my absolute right. These are not the same things.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#45

Post by bruce511 »

mulmen wrote: post #40
nixgeek wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

License plate readers (LPR) are common in cities and on motorways in UK; there are “Average Speed” zones where the LPR is accomplished by cameras mounted on overhead gantries spanning miles. Speeding tickets can be issued automatically if you break the speed limit between gantries. It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Note tha…

> It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Very different cultures. The US is still a culture of personal accountability and freedom. If you aren't hurting anyone you can do as you please. The UK skews toward rules for the sake of rules. Sadly the US is also moving in that direction, but mercifully still trails the UK.

You are right, it's very much a culture thing.

On the US side its very "individual good" focus, whereas in the UK (and Europe in general) its more "community good" focused.

This may be partly a function of density- with higher density comes more human interaction in a smaller space.

The US also had a long period of no, or minimal govt, over very wide areas. This lead to a culture of personal security etc (think Westerns with people carrying guns).

Most Americans see govt at best as a necessary evil, who is actively working "against my interest." Whereas most Europeans see govt as an effective way to "promote community interest". (I'm referencing govt as a concept here, not as a political or party construct. In other words you might be against the people currently in govt, but still appreciate that there should be a govt.)

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#46

Post by YetAnotherNick »

jasonjayr wrote: post #30
riantogo wrote: post #26

The other day I was driving through a school zone and it had that 25 mph radar screen. Most people did slow down, but it got me thinking. With modern cars being "smart", could govt offer a tax tax break for folks opting into the car sotware capping speeds dynamically?

This might be in the works already: with hybrids + full electric vehicles being increasingly used, the revenue from a fuel tax is dropping. There are regions investigating use-based taxes that track when and where vehicles are used, and assess a tax based on that information. This is, of course, a frightening proposal for anyone who wants to keep even one shred of privacy, but so it goes ....

It wouldn't need to share any data with anyone, just have dynamic speed control depending on the road someone is driving. Storing data for all 6 million km of road locally and refreshing them regularly should be doable.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#47

Post by silverquiet »

akira2501 wrote: post #44
afavour wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does feel like a very stereotypically American view to be absolutely aghast at the idea of the government tracking the location of cars while being entirely permissive of private companies doing the same and reselling that data to anyone and everyone that wants it (including the government, ironically)

Disabling government technology is a crime. Interfering with third party data collection efforts is my absolute right. These are not the same things.

That doesn't really sound like a right and if it is you probably signed it away when you bought the car.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#48

Post by pyuser583 »

defrost wrote: post #29
pyuser583 wrote: post #27

So how much of Spiderman is now real life?

Not the part about a paid job as a wet film photographer for a print newspaper.

He’s a freelance photographer, not an employee. That was probably ahead of its time.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#49

Post by asimpleusecase »

They do speed tracking by camera and send fines in the mail already in the UK. Reports are that nationwide camera network already tracks cars from driveway to destination. Worse cameras are now looking at activity inside the vehicle for fines - like not having a seatbelt in place or having a cellphone in hand. There was even a fine issued for “flipping off” a traffic camera https://nypost.com/2021/02/15/uk-driver-avoids-speeding-tick...

Seems western governments keep taking inspiration from China on monitoring of the population.

Re: Police are tagging fleeing cars with GPS darts to avoid dangerous pursuits

#50

Post by mulmen »

bruce511 wrote: post #45
mulmen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s always been weird to me the US doesn’t do this and often requires a trooper to pull you over and give you a written ticket. Very different cultures. The US is still a culture of personal accountability and freedom. If you aren't hurting anyone you can do as you please. The UK skews toward rules for the sake of rules. Sadly the US is also moving in that direction, but mercifully still trails the UK.

You are right, it's very much a culture thing. On the US side its very "individual good" focus, whereas in the UK (and Europe in general) its more "community good" focused. This may be partly a function of density- with higher density comes more human interaction in a smaller space. The US also had a long period of no, or minimal govt, over very wide areas. This lead to a culture of personal security etc (think Weste…

I don’t agree with your stereotype of Americans. We very much believe in our institutions.
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