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When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

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Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#171
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. just don't go on paternity/maternity leave.

Netflix has a one year paternity/maternity leave policy, and some people take the full one year.

Sure. Did they stop punishing people with their "actual meritocracy" metrics for taking it?

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> please have at least three kids. I'm very happy to do so - on exacally one condition, daycare becomes free.

See this is interesting to me. For daycare to become free to parents, ideally governments would subsidize it to 100%. That money comes from somewhere, so probably taxpayer dollars.

So you are still paying for it, just slightly more indirectly.

So, would you rather pay a lot for childcare all at once when you need it (for 5 years per kid), or pay a little via taxes forever?

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, Federal law is very explicit that you have the right to discuss and disclose your salary.

You have the right to do it, but your coworkers might become bitter and envious if you make more than them. You have to judge how mature your coworkers are and whether it would cause trouble for you if they made a complaint to your manager. For example, if you are on a team of like 5 people, it could be impossible for them to maintain your anonymity as they say "Why am I making less than others?" You might also imagi…

That's all true. I've usually asked co-workers I'm friends with, and believe we can both be mature enough, if they want to exchange pay info. I've also told a few people what my salary was when I'm leaving a company, and tell them to share it freely.

Everything you say is true though, it can cause a lot of drama if people start having hard feeling over pay. This is why companies sometimes tell people not to share their salary, or even put it in the company handbook, etc, and I'll say again: it is illegal for a company to tell or even suggest that you not to share you salary.

> And every time I was underpaid I not only didn't get a big raise, but I took much longer than expected to find another job.

How are the two related? Why does being paid less cause you to take longer to find a new job?

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#174
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this before so many times, and recommend people quit and sometimes even apply back at their same company. I got my friend a 30% raise after he quit, worked at a new place for two months, it blocked implementation of key projects and the CEO started freaking out. I asked him how much he would pay to fix the problem, and he gave me a number. I said if we paid that as the new salary to my friend we could have…

That’s a great tactic. I’d love to use that, but I’m afraid a lot of leaders are not rational enough (or have to big of ego’s) to hire the person back

It really takes a big desperation for money to allow such ego death, absolutely.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#175
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What market is down?

The regular software engineering market is very rough to get jobs in right now, particularly at lower levels of experience

Agreed. This is in line with experience of friends (Metro Denver, USA). Even senior folks are having a harder time than in the past few years.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#176

There was an article at Forbes that said employees who stay with the company for more than 2 years are underpaid by as much as 50%. So why do they stay for so long? Humans are resistant to change. Speaking of myself, when I was working as a programmer, finding a new job meant going through endless interviews with leetcode tests even though I had 15 years experience. Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that pra…

I have contracted about 1/2 my career. I love the freedom and the honesty about outcomes and money. I missed the benefits (esp group health insurance) and the sense of teamwork.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leave? Into what is anecdotally the worst job market for developers since 2008 and maybe even the dotcom bust?

I don’t understand this remark. It’s still incredibly hard to find engineers here in Europe (I’m hiring at 5x the minimum wage, to give an idea). Where are the swathes of unemployed people that you are describing? Are a quarter of American IT professionals unemployed?

[deleted]

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> please have at least three kids. I'm very happy to do so - on exacally one condition, daycare becomes free.

See this is interesting to me. For daycare to become free to parents, ideally governments would subsidize it to 100%. That money comes from somewhere, so probably taxpayer dollars. So you are still paying for it, just slightly more indirectly. So, would you rather pay a lot for childcare all at once when you need it (for 5 years per kid), or pay a little via taxes forever?

Forever, for two reasons.

1. It's a large financial hit at an already highly stressful time. It's usually also a non-optional expense.

2. It also taxes those who are childless.

We already do free childcare via K-12 education in the US via taxes, we just need to fill in the gap before that.

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#179

Used to be a high performer at Big Tech. Found out a coworker with less experience at the same level had $200k/year more in comp. I didn’t care about the money, I care about being taken for a fool. There were additional factors, but I left and started my own company within three months and nobody in my old team has anywhere close to my experience.

How did you find out?

Re: When new hires get paid more, top performers resign first

#180
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But corp logic: it's cheaper to raise ONE top performer when he wants to go than to raise EVERYBODY (even those not interested in leaving) to match market

No argument, but if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave. Further in some corporations, interviewing for other positions is a bright shiny red flag for that person to be let go or fired. Even if they accept the counter offer.

> if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave.

If I could get the same amount of money from my current job I would probably stay unless I'm sure I would love the other job more. Because when money is a constant, it's either do I want to keep doing what I'm good at, or jump into something possibly different (and riskier).

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