Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#441

Post by chrispeel » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 5:45 PM UTC

zachmu wrote: post #421

evantbyrne wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imo this is less of a technical issue and more of a regulatory one in 2024. Sending and receiving large amounts of btc/eth for instance might take a minute. For lower value point of sale transactions you don't really have to wait. And that's money in your pocket at that point not an IOU like a pending transaction at a US bank. Paying capital gains on transactions and constantly changing value dampens adoption quite a…

The article boasts of ethereum L2 being able to support 500 TPS thanks to blobs. That's at least two decimal orders of magnitude away from being a global payment solution. It's a joke.

Where did you get that number?

Vitalik gave goals of 1.33 MB per second in blob space, and a compressed tx size of 25 bytes. This gives around 50,000 transactions per second, which seems like a worthy goal.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#442

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 5:54 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #438

defiamazing wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that the US would not do that in response to a speculative dump. With ETH, the system stops working and everything breaks without a HF. So it’s valuable because it’s valuable. If the company pivoted to a different business, it would likely violate securities laws. Corporate governance is in place to stop that from happening. US taking away all property rights is significantly less likely than an ETH…

Ethereum would not stop working just due to a price crash. It would get cheaper for an attacker to purchase majority stake, but good luck purchasing that much without making the price go back up.

[deleted]

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#443

Post by zachmu » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 5:58 PM UTC

chrispeel wrote: post #441

zachmu wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article boasts of ethereum L2 being able to support 500 TPS thanks to blobs. That's at least two decimal orders of magnitude away from being a global payment solution. It's a joke.

Where did you get that number? Vitalik gave goals of 1.33 MB per second in blob space, and a compressed tx size of 25 bytes. This gives around 50,000 transactions per second, which seems like a worthy goal.

I would have sworn I read it in the linked article, but it's sure not there when I read it again. And it's not in the oldest archive.org copy either. I can only conclude I hallucinated it, which makes me uncomfortable.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#444

Post by defiamazing » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #438

defiamazing wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that the US would not do that in response to a speculative dump. With ETH, the system stops working and everything breaks without a HF. So it’s valuable because it’s valuable. If the company pivoted to a different business, it would likely violate securities laws. Corporate governance is in place to stop that from happening. US taking away all property rights is significantly less likely than an ETH…

Ethereum would not stop working just due to a price crash. It would get cheaper for an attacker to purchase majority stake, but good luck purchasing that much without making the price go back up.

[dead]

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#445

Post by ianburrell » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:16 PM UTC

govg wrote: post #354

threeseed wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that's money in your pocket at that point not an IOU like a pending transaction at a US bank In Australia, we have instant transfers between bank accounts. I imagine the US will get to that point soon in which case there is no benefit to crypto for this use case.

It exists in the US as well (Zelle), except due to the super high number of banks, not all will have feature parity / have it enabled. The major banks like Chase support QR code scanning for instant transfers, smaller ones might require a phone number or email input via keyboard.

It will exist soon in the US since FedPay was rolled out this year. It will take a while for banks to support it, but my guess is everyone will support it as replacement to ACH.

I don't think Venmo will die since there is a need for app to provide nice interface. But Zelle has been lobbying against FedPay since it will destroy them.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#446

Post by kandel » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

kjkjadksj wrote: post #433

albrewer wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything will get us out of this ad-ridden hellhole of the centralized internet, I think it'll be cryptocurrency that allows users to transfer tiny amounts of money to a site instead of an ad platform paying the site fractions of a cent for my view. Like if all I need to do is transfer $0.00001 to the site for my view and it's guaranteed to be free from ads or data hoarding, sign me tf up.

Once you set that up as crypto, thats it, thats the price. With the present model ad agencies can play all sorts of games with this price, inflating or deflating it to suit immediate business needs. Its a whole meta that will poof into smoke. So unless the new crypto meta captures the benefits to ad agencies the current “estimate” model of pricing has, it won’t see daylight.

Why? It's easy to do it as a varied cost.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#447

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

tdudhhu wrote: post #166

ShamelessC wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ML on a blockchain I would actually love it if you had a link with more info on that. Don't take this the wrong way, but my first guess would be that that basically isn't true; either it's not actually machine learning (as is understood today) or it isn't actually a blockchain but rather normal distributed computing being "verified" via blockchain somehow? Would love to be proven wrong though.

https://internetcomputer.org/ A YT video about this: https://youtu.be/wk3FxuA5DKs I am still very sceptical about this because it looks very slow, but it seems to work.

[deleted]

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#448

Post by doublepg23 » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #60

doublepg23 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m using the Bitcoin Lightning Network to support podcasts every week or so. https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/boost/

Interesting. Reading through the page, that sounds super complicated though. Couldn't the podcasts simply put a lightning invoice (Which is just a string of text I guess?) on their website with a text like "Support us via Lightning: 1f73ac220b9..."?

A lot of the work with Podcasting 2.0 is moving things into apps like Fountain or Castamatic. By all accounts, people are way way more likely to engage if they don't have to leave their app.

There's crypto-less features that Podcasting 2.0 adds like livestream notifications and transcriptions. Apple actually just added transcriptions to their app officially!

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#449

Post by kandel » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #409

everfree wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically when there's a highly technical topic on HN that I don't understand, I don't comment on the thread about the domain jargon going over my head. I didn't go into today's Babylon thread and comment "Node geometry? Gaussian splat rendering? We are deep into angels dancing on a pin territory. Just use jQuery." I just don't understand the mentality of comments like yours, I suppose.

I suppose the difference is that in most technical topics the complexity is either inherent (quantum mechanics just is this way) or exists for a good reason (consensus algorithms are complicated but they solve a hard problem). IMHO this is not true in cryptocurrency, which is more akin to a self-sustaining pyramid scheme where the complexity serves to obscure the reality of the thing and draw in more rubes. All the n…

I mean, it's a technical piece of code (ETH, that is), and every new piece gets a new name. It's not a more complicated terminology than you'd get for compilers or protocols - TCP wikipedia has "TCP provides reliable, ordered, and error-checked delivery of a stream of octets " which has 6 (or 5, depending how you'd count it), technical terms. They're not very abstract, sure, but it's just TCP, and we think that's completely normal.

A logic class will suddenly try to teach you "eqvuilance relations", "Equivalence class", "Quotient set", "Projection", "Kernel" (Specifically in the Eqvuilance relation meaning), "partition", and that's only the terms I found in wikipedia. The class I help along has one more under this subject, and this is a first semester topic that is taught in a few weeks. All of those are technical, and all of those build on some other technical terms such as relations, functions, sets...

I concede that crypto has a bad naming scheme. It all sounds silly.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#450

Post by everfree » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 6:59 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #409

everfree wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically when there's a highly technical topic on HN that I don't understand, I don't comment on the thread about the domain jargon going over my head. I didn't go into today's Babylon thread and comment "Node geometry? Gaussian splat rendering? We are deep into angels dancing on a pin territory. Just use jQuery." I just don't understand the mentality of comments like yours, I suppose.

I suppose the difference is that in most technical topics the complexity is either inherent (quantum mechanics just is this way) or exists for a good reason (consensus algorithms are complicated but they solve a hard problem). IMHO this is not true in cryptocurrency, which is more akin to a self-sustaining pyramid scheme where the complexity serves to obscure the reality of the thing and draw in more rubes. All the n…

You're entitled to your opinion on that, I suppose. As someone who actually does understand most of the jargon (because it's what I do for a living), data availability sampling feels to me just as inherent to good blockchain design as fast fourier transforms are to good digital signal processing.

> consensus algorithms are complicated but they solve a hard problem

Ironically, this article is about an algorithm that comes to consensus on and distributes data. Yes it's a hard problem, thus the article.

This is not really an article about cryptocurrency or monkey jpegs, it's a nitty-gritty article about the design of a computer protocol, written for the benefit of protocol researchers and implementers. If it's nonsensical to you, perhaps consider that you're not the target audience.