School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere • Hacker News Board

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#301

Post by elboru » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:05 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #279

ryandrake wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize…

> And, a surprising number of my wife's friends from church have opted for homeschooling, so they can teach their kids from the Bible and skip all that science and math "liberal indoctrination". I can assure you, the people newly complaining about "liberal indoctrination" in schools don't mean science and math. It's fine to disagree with people about what should be taught, but it's not productive to ignore how much e…

This. Even if I don’t fully agree with the motives, it’s dishonest to say they are just afraid of science and math ignoring the politicized atmosphere we’ve been dealing with in recent years across all spectrums of society.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#302

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #276

ryandrake wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize…

I recommend approaching people who want to homeschool with an open mind and a little empathy. They are not bible thumpers who want to eschew science, many of them are just normal people who do not like the bias and worldview that is being applied to education.

Obviously, not all of them are homeschooling for religious separatism reasons, and whenever there's a homeschooling article on HN, you'll see all the success stories post in defense of the practice. For every one of those successful individuals, how many are not so successful? We may never know, because most states don't even measure outcomes and/or make it illegal to even check on the progress of homeschooled children.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#303

Post by MuffinFlavored » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

mydriasis wrote: post #160

Talked to my niece about this, she's highschool age. She says that during covid, her school set up all of the infrastructure for remote learning, and they _still offer it_ -- that is, if she doesn't want to, she doesn't have to go to class much at all, save for the school's attendance policy... which means that while she has a 4.0, she's also near truancy. For a lot of folks, school was never good. If I had the choic…

> would I have gone if I wasn't _required_ to?

Would you every worry about doing ok academically but falling behind socially?

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#304

Post by secstate » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #276

ryandrake wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize…

I recommend approaching people who want to homeschool with an open mind and a little empathy. They are not bible thumpers who want to eschew science, many of them are just normal people who do not like the bias and worldview that is being applied to education.

As someone for whom the pandemic inverted the hierarchy of needs around school, we are still homeschooling because public school around here is a glorified day care full of busy work. The one thing we are missing is the socialization part and are working to address it. But I promise you, we ware not bible thumpers, nor concerned about the curriculum per-se. Rather, the slow plodding movement through the curriculum and soul-crushing aspects of bored kids.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#305

Post by partiallypro » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

jonhohle wrote: post #293

partiallypro wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every generation says this, they still showed up and did the work. Do you honestly think a teenager that was drafted into WW1 wasn't scared for their future? What about people in the Spanish Flu or Polio epidemics? People in the 50s thought we'd all die in nuclear war. It's so annoying that people think our circumstances are worse than our ancestors. They aren't, unless you're literally at war, your life is better th…

One of the lessons I learned as a kid that I’m trying to pass onto my kids: don’t let school get in the way of learning. There are things schools can’t or won’t teach and unfortunately for them, there value was significantly tainted when parents got to see what was happening every day in the classroom. I’m pulling my kids to go to see the solar eclipse in Texas next week. They’ll get to experience something that won’…

That's great, but that's not why these stats have gone up so much, and while that is technically "truant" in Germany, it's not in the US. The kids in these stats aren't going on fieldtrips or even vacations with their parents (it's funny that you can tell the wealth class of this little forum based on people making this claim.) Their parents are at work most of the time or maybe even just sitting at home with them. If you've ever grown up in a poor area, it's much easier to understand why the stats are going up.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#306

Post by seneca » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:07 PM UTC

usea wrote: post #252

andy99 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you prioritize making your kids sit in school over taking them and doing something fun like a vacation, given the option? My first thought reading the headline was that more people are realizing the irrelevance of school and work, and prioritizing other things.

Because school is important and not at all irrelevant.

Education is important, not school. So long as school is a means to receive education it is important. A lot of people don't think it is anymore.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#307

Post by williamcotton » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:08 PM UTC

alt227 wrote: post #282

williamcotton wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My office basically dictates that we show up regardless. Why? We work in legal services and our clients depend heavily on us and with massive consequences when we make mistakes. Court mandated deadlines don’t care about a runny nose. I see no measurable impact on performance.

> Court mandated deadlines don’t care about a runny nose. No, but whatever industry you work in and whoever your employer is, they should have enough staff to cover minor illnesses and absenses. If you are off sick and your company misses a court deadline thats on your companies poor staff management, not on you for being ill and staying home to avoid infecting coworkers.

Business isn’t always steady so it’s not tenable to have too many people onboard. Although we are hiring. It’s just hard to find experienced software engineers who can communicate with lawyers and are willing to do things like code inspections with nothing but a pad and pen. You certainly won’t be living the Googler lifestyle but it is way more meaningful, energizing and sociable.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#308

Post by linuxftw » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:08 PM UTC

partiallypro wrote: post #269

silverquiet wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that this generation is somehow different from all the others not because of their optimism for the future, but because they lack work ethic? I think that elders have been complaining of following generations' work ethic since pre-history. But I distinctly remember kids being optimistic (I thought irrationally so; I was a pretty miserable child before it was cool) about the future when I was in school.…

No, I'm not blaming the kids. I'm blaming the parents, I felt like I made this pretty explicit in my second paragraph. Virtually no kid wants to go to school. That's irrelevant. Some kids don't want to eat anything but junk food. You shouldn't let them. You're the parent. You cannot allow your kid to be truant. You are nearly guaranteeing them poverty, that is abuse and neglect, and it should be punished. There are s…

For most of human existence, the great unwashed masses were illiterate, and society seemed to plod along just fine.

Where's the sense in forcing children to spend the best years of their lives as automatons to an education system, just to be baristas at Starbucks anyway? Everyone simply can't work a white collar job, somebody has to clean the toilets. We should at least let those people enjoy their childhood.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#309

Post by LakesAndTrees » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:08 PM UTC

mminer237 wrote: post #111

Talking with our local school administrators, this does seem to be the biggest challenge they're facing. From their point of view, it's just caused by (typically poorer) parents who don't care about their kids' education and saw how it seemed to be optional during COVID and so just don't make their kids go if they don't feel like it. It's really sad, and it sounds incredibly hard for anyone else to do anything about.

My experience with my teen has been that, post-pandemic, he and all of his friends simply decided they didn't want to be inside/bored like they were. We're struggling big-time to keep ours in class. We've tried incentives. We've levied punishments. It's like neither they nor their friends care - at all - about any of it (certainly much less afraid of consequences than I ever was).

Add the much more common use of drugs to the mix (from 14 on), phones that are not required to be put away in class, and it's very tough to keep them on track.

I didn't have half of the distractions/opportunities for entertainment kids these days have, and it was hard for me to muster up the enthusiasm.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#310

Post by troyvit » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 3:09 PM UTC

elboru wrote: post #275

kube-system wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chronic absence is typically defined as missing at least 10 percent of the school year, or about 18 days, for any reason. I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Decades ago when I was in public school, the kids who were chronically absent like this were the ones who clearly had some behavioral issues or problems at home. The linked study also demonstrates that the rates are…

> I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Have you been around kids post COVID? Winters after the pandemic have been a nightmare for many parents. My nephews have basically been "sick" the whole winter (getting sick, staying home, recovering, going back to school, getting a new virus, repeat).

It's been the same for my kids.

Another thing I've noticed is that post-covid they've come home from school with more stories of the teachers just putting on videos and having the kids watch that, or else they just read crap on their tablets. What I'm saying is, it seems like education has also changed post-covid. It's like the teachers are still remote-teaching even though everybody's in the classroom.

This is public school, and maybe that's how they do it these days?