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School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

nytimes.com

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Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#51

Post by toomuchtodo »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #39
Aachen wrote: post #17

> Everywhere * in the USA

Is school in the US optional? Over here (the Netherlands) school is mandatory for anyone under 18. Skipping school without a valid reason (e.g. illness) comes with a €100/day fine.

It’s relatively easy to pull your kid from the public school system (we submitted a form for each child, and have to provide a brief report annually on their homeschool progress), and the penalties you mention do not exist unless absence quantity is egregious (and typically, no financial penalties).

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#52

Post by Ajay-p »

diggan wrote: post #5

> In a working-class pocket of Michigan, school administrators have tried almost everything, including pajama day, to boost student attendance. Wow, pajama day didn't bring back students? So strange. I wonder if they tried less homework, shorter school-days and/or later start of the day? Basically the three reasons I myself was chronically absent from school for as long as I can remember.

..or maybe if they focused more on academics, reducing bullying and violence, and less political-socializing students would feel they are getting something out of it.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#54

Post by fullshark »

fifteen1506 wrote: post #45
fullshark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policy response to the pandemic you mean

Agreed, the plebs should have been infected ASAP. We would have leapfrogged the economical development of other countries.

Or maybe just do what Europe did? America is unique in its decision to shut down schools, in California some districts were literally closed for a year.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#55

Post by kwhitefoot »

Perhaps it's because most schooling seems irrelevant to many of the students? I went to very good schools and actually enjoyed quite a lot of my schooldays but even while I was there I could see that a lot of it was a complete and utter waste of everyone's time.

I spent six years attending French classes and three of Latin. I can't read, write, speak, or understand either one. I moved to Norway fifteen years later and spent a couple of hours a week in evening classes for a year and a few years of immersion in the language and now I am fluent with much almost no effort.

So why do schools all over the world persist in educational methods that don't work? Why do they never teach people how to handle money, how to negotiate with tradesmen about repairs to a house, how to drive a car.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#56

Post by pastage »

alephnerd wrote: post #36
542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article highlights that many parents whose children are absent are treating the posted assignments/homework as the primary teaching tool, so cutting that back hurts absent kids (I also understand that homework’s has been massively scaled back already in most places). Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents. Later days is a solid idea, and I believe re…

My mom's a teacher in a decent school district in California, and later school times didn't have a significant effect on post-pandemic absences in her experiences (for the students who did come in, it did have a positive effect on their performance though). The brutal truth is a subset of parents just don't care too much about education. It doesn't matter if it's an affluent or a working class district - there will a…

I only have anecdata but the three kids I know of all have some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school. From my recollection it was more or less the same in my days just that the kids went to school and wasted their time. Some kids are definitely harder to help than others.

EDIT: This is for Sweden where we are talking about the same issue. But I do not think we have the same numbers here.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#57

Post by willis936 »

mattw2121 wrote: post #9

"because teachers must slow down and adjust their approach to keep everyone on track." Do this and then you'll have your top performers start being absent as well -- out of boredom. I'd suggest sending kids that are lagging behind, and those that have high absentee rates, into remedial classes. Education should get kids excited about learning. From my experience, nothing gets kids more excited than the feeling that t…

Those ahead don't need additional benefit. We should be working to bring the left half of the distribution into the fold. If a student is so great that they're skipping out of boredom then there's little that a public institution should do to help them. They can go out with a head start and go get em.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#58

Post by alephnerd »

pastage wrote: post #56
alephnerd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom's a teacher in a decent school district in California, and later school times didn't have a significant effect on post-pandemic absences in her experiences (for the students who did come in, it did have a positive effect on their performance though). The brutal truth is a subset of parents just don't care too much about education. It doesn't matter if it's an affluent or a working class district - there will a…

I only have anecdata but the three kids I know of all have some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school. From my recollection it was more or less the same in my days just that the kids went to school and wasted their time. Some kids are definitely harder to help than others. EDIT: This is for Sweden where we are talking about the same issue. But I do not think we have the same numbers here.

> some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school

This is a valid reason to be absent, and school administrators, teachers, and statistics take that into account.

My comment was aimed specifically at students who don't have valid physical or mental issues.

My mom's school district does not enforce suspensions for chronic absenteeism due to a subset of very affluent and litigious parents.

> This is for Sweden

Makes sense. There is no point comparing the Swedish or "American" system, as there are 13,187 different American systems that all have different norms and rules besides a handful stipulated by the DoE.

Even inter-US comparisons don't make sense for that reason.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#59

Post by kwhitefoot »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #43
diggan wrote: post #5

> In a working-class pocket of Michigan, school administrators have tried almost everything, including pajama day, to boost student attendance. Wow, pajama day didn't bring back students? So strange. I wonder if they tried less homework, shorter school-days and/or later start of the day? Basically the three reasons I myself was chronically absent from school for as long as I can remember.

Less homework? My teenage children are in honors and AP classes and barely have any homework. I think they should have far more homework. When I was their age I spent a few hours a day on homework. Parents I talk to feel the same way. Give the kids more work to do at home to keep them off their phones and YouTube.

Homework has been demonstrated over and over again to not result in higher attainment.

If your children are so smart they can surely do some reading and research of their own. That's what I did back in prehistoric times (1960s and early 1970s). In the subjects I enjoyed I was consistently ahead of the bulk of the class and occasionally of the teachers simply because I read all the text books and spent time in the library. It was enthusiasm that drove my performance not the imposition of extra homework.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#60

Post by Ajay-p »

Mizza wrote: post #25

Are there similar changes at Montessori schools? Maybe they could try making school less like prison, with less mandatory pointless toil?

I attending Montessori and enjoyed it, but this was 10+ years ago. We did not talk about the teacher's personal beliefs and politics, and there was no discussion of student gender or sexuality. It was focused on social and interpersonal development and academics. I understand some people believe discussing these sensitive topics is essential to student development, but I think it has made kids very uncomfortable and strayed too far from academics.
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