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Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

vitalik.eth.limo

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Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#331

Post by SergeAx »

Version467 wrote: post #127

As far as I can tell, the only cryptocurrency that actually delivers on its name (i.e. being used as a currency) is Monero. Sure, it's all drugs and stolen credit cards, but it does undeniably solve a real world problem for its users instead of just being used as a vehicle for speculative investment. With that said, I think if anyone comes up with a "killer-app" for crypto, then it'll be on the Ethereum chain. They s…

Does moving funds between compartmentalized economies count as "currency" use? I know quite a few cases of using it to move money from Russia or China.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#332

Post by sainez »

hanniabu wrote: post #241
danpalmer wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just sign up though, it's posting comments, upvoting, etc. Every "write" becomes a transaction, many with their own tokens. > the friction of money actually being involved ... makes it not worth it This is it. There are very few people who live for this level of financialisation.

That's not how it works, not every interaction needs to be onchain

Don't know why this is downvoted. It is possible (and probably desirable) to build applications where only certain data is stored on chain.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#333

Post by sainez »

ASinclair wrote: post #301
dylkil wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which adds a great deal of UX complexity to the end user Not exactly, L2s are being abstracted away, end users eventually wont even be aware what chain they are interacting with without tracing the tx

If you don’t know which chain you’re interacting with how can you trust your transactions are secured by a chain at all?

How does this differ from e.g. online banking? Does every user manually check encryption algorithms and keys?

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#334

Post by sainez »

talldayo wrote: post #263
arandomusername wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you not realize that one can run/evaluate code without actually broadcasting it? All you need is access to a node (plenty of public ones) and you can "simulate" any transaction(code) you would like.

Testing a dapp off the mainnet is like ensuring your website works on localhost. It will find some issues, but it's not representative of how it will look in deployment. In any case, for actual usage it should surprise nobody why everyone conflates Ethereum with money. No, your L2 chain does not qualify as an official solution.

> Testing a dapp off the mainnet is like ensuring your website works on localhost

I would argue the exact opposite. A website will be deployed to different versions of different browsers on different operating systems. A smart contract will exist on a single distributed computer. It sounds like the actual problem is people treating smart contract development as cavalierly as web app development

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#335

Post by mindcandy »

danpalmer wrote: post #107
Mahn wrote: post #74

Key quote from the article: > Many have argued that the lack of large-scale applications for the past ten years proves that crypto is useless. I have always argued against this: pretty much every crypto application that is not financial speculation depends on low fees - and so while we have high fees, we should not be surprised that we mainly see financial speculation! > Now that we have blobs, this key constraint th…

5 cents per transaction is high for many parts of the world, and exceptionally high if every interaction in normal life is turned into a financial transaction.

Perfect is the enemy of the great.

Credit card users pay $1+ fees per transaction all the time. They don’t complain only because vendors usually eat the fees on their behalf to obscure the issue.

I have a “2% cash back on everything” card which I know is actually a “we charged your vendor 4% and shared half of that with people like you who clicked the right button” card. I don’t like it. But, that’s the game.

People complain about the impossibility of crypto having fees of pennies with settlement times of minutes while constantly using credit cards that have fees of dollars with a settlement time of days.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#336

Post by joshspankit »

evantbyrne wrote: post #249
shuntress wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could maybe call it a technical issue or an issue of adoption but the fact is that no one is scanning Monero wallet QR codes to buy coffee.

Capital gains tax is not a technical issue per se. People also don't buy coffee with wire transfers, but nobody says wire transfers are a failure. btc/eth are better at doing what wire transfers were designed to do. The point is the tech is much better than people who have been sleeping on crypto seem to realize

Something that has likely slowed down adoption: Current payment methods (CC, debit, tap, chip, etc) artificially appear faster than they are.

When someone taps, 99% of the time the payment processor is not waiting for the funds. It’s all trust and calculations of acceptable risk (that’s why the tap limit).

Crypto can adopt that approach as well.

Yes, CCs/debit went through a period (as did cheques) where that trust was wildly abused and it’s likely any trust layer on top of crypto would have to go through the same period of abuse, but solutions [c|w]ould be implemented fairly quickly since it’s all tech.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#337

Post by halfcat »

Version467 wrote: post #127

As far as I can tell, the only cryptocurrency that actually delivers on its name (i.e. being used as a currency) is Monero. Sure, it's all drugs and stolen credit cards, but it does undeniably solve a real world problem for its users instead of just being used as a vehicle for speculative investment. With that said, I think if anyone comes up with a "killer-app" for crypto, then it'll be on the Ethereum chain. They s…

Is running an app on ethereum still over 100x the cost to run it on, say, AWS?

I hear CEOs talk about how this will revolutionize the world, but realistically no one needs a cryptographically secure immutable ledger to validate that someone is the true owner of concert tickets or whatever.

I do wonder, if the only real-world application that needs a cryptographically secure immutable ledger, is cryptocurrency.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#338

Post by shermantanktop »

halfcat wrote: post #337
Version467 wrote: post #127

As far as I can tell, the only cryptocurrency that actually delivers on its name (i.e. being used as a currency) is Monero. Sure, it's all drugs and stolen credit cards, but it does undeniably solve a real world problem for its users instead of just being used as a vehicle for speculative investment. With that said, I think if anyone comes up with a "killer-app" for crypto, then it'll be on the Ethereum chain. They s…

Is running an app on ethereum still over 100x the cost to run it on, say, AWS? I hear CEOs talk about how this will revolutionize the world, but realistically no one needs a cryptographically secure immutable ledger to validate that someone is the true owner of concert tickets or whatever. I do wonder, if the only real-world application that needs a cryptographically secure immutable ledger, is cryptocurrency.

And the only real-world, non-criminal users of cryptocurrency are cryptocurrency speculators. To an approximation, anyway.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#339

Post by wslh »

rglullis wrote: post #326
wslh wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was talking about proof-of-stake since the beginning and every year was talking about the next year. Not blaming Vitalik himself but the whole thing, it is bad to give false expectations. Another thing, no pun intended, is that the proof-of-stake upgrade maintains prohibitive the network fees for transactions while other technologies have low fees. > I have no idea what Vitalik is funding. Do you? The funding of p…

> proof-of-stake upgrade maintains prohibitive Consensus algorithms have nothing to do with transaction fees. > while other technologies have low fees. Any "Ethereum killer" that showed up turned out to have the same if not worse problems as Ethereum in the moment they started dealing with minimal real-world traction. > contributors received the ~50% of the total ethers until now. First: source? Second: "50% of total…

> Consensus algorithms have nothing to do with transaction fees.

Please don't tell bullshit. Look at Algorand and other protocols, consensus has a relationship with fees because it is linked with the cost of reaching consensus!

You can even read that in the Ethereum subreddit [0].

> Source?

It is repeated ad nauseam in Internet [1] and you can analyze the blockchain genesis to check it.

> Ethereum killer?

It is not about the protocol but the community you create. Algorand has solved the PoS before Cardano and Ethereum but they are #58 now and the creator is one of the parents of modern cryptography, Turing Prize, etc. Solana is #5. Beyond comparing the Solana protocol with Algorand it is a matter of "business" execution, technology is a smaller part. Probably if Livra from Meta was accepted it would be in the top 10.

Even when you think about Solidity as a programming language, it was not well designed (e.g. security) but that doesn't matter.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/ru9dsq/the_proof_...

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=how+much+the+original+contri...

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#340

Post by PKop »

rglullis wrote: post #328
PKop wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every coin at one point said it wasn't just for hodling, including as you pointed out BTC and ETH. Saying you have some other use case besides asset appreciation is not a unique proposition.

BTC (and derivatives) were very much "just for holding". The fact that they hoped it could be used for day-to-day value transfers does not negate the fact that the system can only work with a continuous influx of capital. "You should pay something with BTC, but if possible buy back the USD-equivalent amount" was standard advice already in 2011. > Saying you have some other use case besides asset appreciation is not a…

>they hoped it could be used for day-to-day value transfers

And they said this, including Satoshi. Yes they were wrong, but they said it.

>Now, it isn't

It's never been unique, because every coin has said it including, as you have mentioned in every response so far, Bitcoiners.

You've also said Eth guys have said. What are we left with? Every other **coin has obviously said it. I'm not arguing they all mean it, or they've been right. I'm arguing they all said it.

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