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Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#911

To put this into its proper perspective, see table 7 here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu... In 2022, the average murderer in the Federal Southern District of New York (N = 58) was sentenced to a median of 231 months, which comes out to 19 years and change. No crime of any type had an mean or median sentence higher than 25 years; most were far less than half. So it should be really hard…

Honestly, comparing billion dollar fraud to murder is a bit tricky for me. In the one hand we could try to give a dollar value to a life, maybe a million dollars. But I don’t know if stealing a million dollars is equivalent to murder, since money is fungible and people are not. The government can make the victim of theft whole. For murder, that is not possible. On the other hand maybe a more reasonable approach would…

> We have an impulse to punish evil, and severely punish very evil things, but it’s more of a primitive drive than anything productive. (Of course the exception is the extent to which punishment can deter crime.)

That "exception" is the productive social instinct of what you call "a primitive drive".

And it's not just deterrence to negate other people's existing criminal intentions. It also prevents the specific individual in question from reoffending, and it also prevents other people who worked with the criminal from effectively spreading their antisocial culture/habits to unrelated individuals who otherwise have no existing proclivities for crime. It's almost about killing the idea, even more than punishing the person.

Having a standard where you're going to say "This is not okay and we absolutely won't put up with it" is vital to keeping a healthy culture where you can walk down the streets safe at night, or keep your money in a bank knowing it won't just disappear. The penalty for crimes has to be at least several times whatever the criminal gained, in order to be a viable deterrent considering the odds of getting caught, plus at least proportional to the harm inflicted, to center your societal structures on empathising and identifying with the victim. There has to be a heavy artificial cost for criminals, because otherwise game theory of the self-interested says that we'll all end up being constantly victimized.

Rule of the law isn't "primitive". I also feel the desire to forgive and quarantine, but with finite empathy, it's backwards to feel for the perpetrators rather than the victims. Look at Russia for an example to see what happens when predatorily selfish behaviors are allowed to go unpunished, and inevitably end up normalized. [1]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia

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> If we could identify a treatable disease (a tumor for example) and know with 100% certainty that treating that disease could prevent further crimes, I personally wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I would consider this potentially much, much worse and more "barbaric" than imprisonment or even execution, as it would almost definitely be done unconsensually and coercibly.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#912

SBF is 32 years old - 25 years isn't a death sentence for him Parole is available after 1/3 of term, realistically he won't serve 100% There's still a chance for him to get something out of his life post jail

He'll be out around 2040: https://x.com/wagieeacc/status/1768798879959400776?s=46&t=N5... Shkreli far and away has been providing the most informed analysis of this case. He trashed the letters to the judge from SBF's parents, then Judge Kaplan went on to raise the exact points Shkreli said he would.

I guess he learned a lot about law after bait and switching AIDS patients and committing "widespread fraud" (SEC's words).

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#913

It's funny. I lost tens of thousands of dollars thanks to this individual, yet his sentence brings me no joy or arouses any emotion at all. I'm utterly indifferent to his fate for some reason and I don't know why. Yet if he had been a mugger who stole a much smaller amount of money from me on the street, I think I would've been far more vengeful. Should I feel vindictive? Or is it healthy to forget about it and move…

No, you "shouldn't" feel vindictive. Vengeance doesn't really help anybody. We are all wronged, and we all wrong others. None of us is perfect.

Some are worse than others, and we have laws, and punishments, etc.

But I believe there is no morality to seeking pain in others; even if you believe they deserve it. It will not raise you up, so to speak.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#914
post #756

The article is followed at this moment with an article titled “SBF’s Parents are Heartbroken” with a picture of his parents where both are unhappy, outside in the rain under umbrellas. I wonder if they considered their role? I haven’t seen anyone accuse SBF of being a psychopath; given that, how does a person become so ethically bankrupt? A: His parents failed to do their job of ensuring that he developed a conscienc…

Sam Bankman-Fried is not a child.

https://www.citationneeded.news/sam-bankman-fried-is-not-a-c...

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#916
post #317

From the article, SBF will likely be out in 2036, at the age of 45. There’s a good chance he’ll get himself into shenanigans again, if not already from inside prison.

Probably get himself into a YouTube channel. I have noticed that with a lot of Excons and this very interesting.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#917
post #276

An uncle once commented about a cousin of ours that he demonstrated how it's possible to screw things up so badly that you can't possibly recover. I think that's true for Sam. I hope it's not true for the people in his orbit; I hope they can get out from under this and try to find meaning, ideally from repairing the harm they've done. As Rick Heicklen writes, "We are not ever going to be Sam. But we could be Caroline…

FWIW, I didn't find Lewis's book as bad (or amoral) as it's often made out to be. Yes, he didn't put his judgement in every paragraph, but his description of SBF was: a) absolutely damning! SBF's lack of empathy, his notion that (given that everyone else is stupid) he knew best and should basically ignore the advice of everyone else (particularly his elders), his naive utilitarianism without any deontological/virtue…

> a) absolutely damning! SBF's lack of empathy, his notion that (given that everyone else is stupid)

Wow, I can’t fathom how one could believe everyone else is stupid. Yeah, SBF went to MIT, but really the best students in each descent university likely fall into the same percentile of academic talent. Or, as Bezos used to say, people can be smart in a thousand ways.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lewis also soft-sells the polyamorous relationships and complications that caused around SBF's relationship with Caroline Ellison. Caroline wants to go public, and why that would be a much bigger deal in the polyamorous world they were living in. It's similar in many of Lewis's other analysis of SBF's relationships. Lewis avoids context that makes SBF look much worse.

What does "going public" mean in this context?

Announcing to everyone around them that they were in a relationship.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#919
post #780
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I didn't find Lewis's book as bad (or amoral) as it's often made out to be. Yes, he didn't put his judgement in every paragraph, but his description of SBF was: a) absolutely damning! SBF's lack of empathy, his notion that (given that everyone else is stupid) he knew best and should basically ignore the advice of everyone else (particularly his elders), his naive utilitarianism without any deontological/virtue…

So much of the apologia for SBF is disgusting. I don't need to have any humility, because I don't steal from people. I don't throw colleagues and lovers under the bus when I get caught stealing. I have humility and don't believe I'm the savior of crypto, the unbanked, etc etc. His entire worldview reeks of hubris and narcissism on a level I find disgusting and so common in "bro" culture. The idea that he can get out…

Absolutely. White-collar crime destroys lives.
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