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Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

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Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#61

Post by rightbyte »

andrewaylett wrote: post #39

The stamps have "unique" codes, but a genuine counterfeit must still have a code -- and to be useful it must duplicate the code on a real stamp. If the counterfeit gets used first, the stamp is marked as spent, and when the unlucky purchaser of the real stamp tries to use it, they're told theirs is "counterfeit" because it's flagged as "used" in the database?

There was this computer system scandal when lots of post masters were convicted of fraud even though it was known the computer system was buggy. So I wouldn't assume too much competence involved.

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#62

Post by coldtea »

delichon wrote: post #15

If this is really about a fine for counterfeiting a stamp, isn't £5 astonishingly low? In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. https://puryearlaw.com/2015/12/27/federal-counterfeit-postag...

>In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison.

For counterfeiting _A_ stamp? I guess in the US even breathing the wrong way is probably a serious federal felony.

Land of the free, and all that...

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#63

Post by Leynos »

HackerLemon wrote: post #12
Ajay-p wrote: post #7

It is strange that a person would receive a fine for receiving a letter with a "counterfeit" stamp. That would make for a very nasty revenge operation - send your worst enemy letters with counterfeit stamps to cause them to incur a five pound fine.

You don't have to pay it. It's only payable if you want to receive the letter.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing what the letter is. All you get is a slip through your door saying an item of mail is waiting for you and has a £5 fee to pay. If you're like me, you pay the fee, fearful that it might be something important.

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#64

Post by xnyan »

coldtea wrote: post #62
delichon wrote: post #15

If this is really about a fine for counterfeiting a stamp, isn't £5 astonishingly low? In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. https://puryearlaw.com/2015/12/27/federal-counterfeit-postag...

> In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. For counterfeiting _A_ stamp? I guess in the US even breathing the wrong way is probably a serious federal felony. Land of the free, and all that...

there are countries where it’s not a serious crime to counterfeit postage? I think the penalty is double (up to 10 years) in the United Kingdom for example.

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#65

Post by Leynos »

taylorfinley wrote: post #59
andrewaylett wrote: post #39

The stamps have "unique" codes, but a genuine counterfeit must still have a code -- and to be useful it must duplicate the code on a real stamp. If the counterfeit gets used first, the stamp is marked as spent, and when the unlucky purchaser of the real stamp tries to use it, they're told theirs is "counterfeit" because it's flagged as "used" in the database?

The barcode in the article decodes to "JGB S11221017031011395940006622112101 BC046285E760466C01" if anyone fancies having a crack at making a stamp keygen.

I didn't actually realize one could fit so much into such a small barcode.

I do wonder if this now means it is in theory possible to track items sent by letter post.

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#66

Post by michaelmrose »

adamm255 wrote: post #25
delichon wrote: post #15

If this is really about a fine for counterfeiting a stamp, isn't £5 astonishingly low? In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. https://puryearlaw.com/2015/12/27/federal-counterfeit-postag...

The issue is, the recipient is paying the fine. I send you a letter with a fake stamp, you pay. The £5 is an inconvenience, something you’d pay while tutting “what is the world coming to”. The sender is none the wiser. 7.3bn letters delivered in 22-23 ( https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032/272795/... ) If 0.01% of that are tagged as counterfeit, that’s £3,650,000 in fines.

It's worse than that. They introduced new stamps with barcodes and let you trade in your old lawfully obtained postage for the new barcoded stuff. They are marking some of their own lawfully obtained stamps as counterfeit and by dint of doing so stealing from their citizenry.

It's roughly analogous to having bought speed guns from an incompetent vendor which sometimes read 200 kph no matter what the speed and insisting their cops continue to use them and ticketing per normal because it would be very expensive to replace the guns.

Re: Why are so many people being hit with £5 fines for 'counterfeit' stamps?

#69

Post by datascienced »

Leynos wrote: post #63
HackerLemon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay it. It's only payable if you want to receive the letter.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing what the letter is. All you get is a slip through your door saying an item of mail is waiting for you and has a £5 fee to pay. If you're like me, you pay the fee, fearful that it might be something important.

Yeah it could be a speeding fine caused by a faulty detector after all!
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