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What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

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Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#221

Post by zer00eyz »

lyu07282 wrote: post #210
zer00eyz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure: What we do know: this was an AR21 case. It was him suing boeing for forcing him to retire early and not promoting him because he was "whistle blowing". This is a case that had already been dismissed once. On the matter of that, the FAA already got his reports and agreed with him. The harm to Boeing from his wistle blowing was finished. They were probably paying more for lawyers to fight this than it was going t…

I care infinitely more about the questions I asked than whatever the family had to say. Because questions about fingerprints and gunpowder residue are concerning the physical evidence that could prove suicide to a reasonable degree. I don't really care about talking about circumstantial evidence when the physical is right there. The reason why people aren't convinced by the “this wasn't even about his whistleblowing,…

>>> it's about the chilling effect for other potential, current employees.

We agree on this 1000%

"If this hadn't gone on so long, I'd still have my son, and my sons would have their brother and we wouldn't be sitting here. So in that respect, I do," Vicky Stokes said when asked if she places some of the blame for her son's death on Boeing.

FROM: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblow...

Let me restate that: THE MANS OWN MOTHER SAYS BOEING DROVE HIM TO KILL HIMSELF

They didn't need to hold a gun to his head and pull the trigger. The just needed to fuck him over badly enough for long enough for this to be the inevitable outcome.

Blow the whistle all you want kids, Pappa Boeing gonna take your job and fuck you over and there aint nothing you can do about it... Thats the chilling narrative if there ever was one.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#222

Post by ladzoppelin »

dralley wrote: post #177
ladzoppelin wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying your wrong but who were the faulty suppliers for all these claims? Is it possible things would start unraveling for something much bigger than it already has? The other motive would also be to send a message which it definitely did. I find it weird that he would ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forward by doing this the day after the court appearance, its strange.

What was his testimony in a civil (not criminal) lawsuit which had already been given many times before both in public and in other lawsuits going to unravel? Especially given the number of additional investigations going on? Why would I just assume that it exists? And why would it ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forwards? Was he supposed to imagine that everyone was going to start believing conspira…

I mean, do you really think this will not deter future whistle blowers lol? "conspiracy theories about his death" You mean like that 30 year coordinated Epstein situation?

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#223

Post by [deleted] »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #84
stephenhuey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a previous HN discussion, plenty of people here believed it was fully possible that someone at Boeing essentially pulled the trigger and gave plenty of examples, even from a huge successful Silicon Valley company, of corporate folks doing stranger nefarious things than would be believable in film. As someone who has known multiple people who committed suicide, I'm not sure I can feel as certain as you that this wa…

After reading the story of ebay execs harassing a random completely unimportant couple, to the point of repeatedly mailing them threatening or disgusting packages, I can't discredit killing a witness for a real tangible reason.

[deleted]

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#224

Post by benced »

__loam wrote: post #217
benced wrote: post #85

I am not exaggerating to say that Jim McNerney should be dragged in front of Congress and be forced to explain what he did to an incredibly important American company. It's important to push back against the shareholder value theory where appropriate and humiliation is an underrated component of that.

The entire neoliberal ideology needs to be reevaluated at every level of business in this country. We're destroying our skilled labor forces and our economy to pursue short term gains and it's going to have a negative impact on our national security.

I disagree with this. I don't really care if a video game company is run in a profit-maximizing way. We should probably be a bit more skeptical with important companies, particularly ones that seem irreplaceable (for all their faults, only one other company can do what Boeing does).

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#225

Post by pdonis »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #70

The "funny" thing to me is that I'm old enough to remember when the merger occurred that people were predicting exactly what came to pass. It just took 25 years to finally happen.

> It just took 25 years to finally happen.

To me the big question is, why did it take 25 years for this to become common knowledge? Why is our system of evaluating public corporations so messed up that a public company, and one with huge government contracts to boot, could get away with this for that long?

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#226

Post by constantcrying »

MilStdJunkie wrote: post #164
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #70

The "funny" thing to me is that I'm old enough to remember when the merger occurred that people were predicting exactly what came to pass. It just took 25 years to finally happen.

Remember the big rollout of the Dreamliner in 2014 to show it was all done, but it was actually an empty metal tube with landing gear duct taped on it? And remember the venom that people got for bringing up the fact that, you know, you could see the sky from the wheel wells? Or the second rollout, when they had to strap the fuse segments together because no one knew where the fasteners were? Oh we could go on and on,…

>name a commercially successful Boeing-designed product from the 21st century. Something that can legitimately be called "Successful", and "Boeing"

Boeing is still able to sell planes to customers, they still have a lot of orders in their backlog. This would only change if their are mass cancellations by their customers.

There is a massive demand for planes right now, airlines rather would own a "good enough" plane from Bowling than no plane at all.

The problem isn't the lack of commercial success, the problem is that Boeing is commercially successful and that there is absolutely no punishment from the market or their customers, because everyone knows that they will continue to make and sell planes.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#227

Post by baggy_trough »

pdonis wrote: post #225
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #70

The "funny" thing to me is that I'm old enough to remember when the merger occurred that people were predicting exactly what came to pass. It just took 25 years to finally happen.

> It just took 25 years to finally happen. To me the big question is, why did it take 25 years for this to become common knowledge? Why is our system of evaluating public corporations so messed up that a public company, and one with huge government contracts to boot, could get away with this for that long?

Boeing, and the United States as a whole, have been very richly endowed with capital. When you decide to stop adding to your seed corn and start to eat it down, but you began with an enormous mountain of it, you can eat well for a very long period of time.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#228

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

jgeada wrote: post #187
hammock wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I read more about quality inertia , find other case studies, etc?

There was a recent discussion right here on HN about "trading trust": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39394990 Basically, many of these companies took decades to reach these positions where they're trusted. A bunch of managers rightfully figured out this was an asset that could be easily traded away for increased profits and they'd be gone by the time anyone noticed the devastation they left behind.

Also called "brand harvesting".

(If you built the brand yourself and did this all intentionally, I think it could also simply be called "the long con".)

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#229

Post by Eisenstein »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #182
Rinzler89 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that the approaches in Vienna Vienna's approach worked because it happened after WW2 when the country was bombed and broken, land, construction materials and labor were dirt cheap, so the state built over half the city's homes and turned them into public housing cheaply no problem. But fast forward to today where most of the land and buildings in a city are privately owned, how to you expect a city, any city, to…

Right so you’re saying Vienna’s approached worked but we would have to change things to make it work for us. That is exactly what I am saying too. I’m also saying that it could be worth considerable effort to try to make those changes, because the reward is a much better system. For example we might introduce bills now that help stabilize (reduce) housing prices by limiting large scale corporate speculation on housin…

That would require actually listening to each other and experts, and not using demagoguery to villainize people who disagree with us on minor culture issues. Again, the financial incentives align for the anti-social aspect, since yelling at each other draws in more engagement and viewers and sells more ad-space.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#230

Post by mooreds »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #70

The "funny" thing to me is that I'm old enough to remember when the merger occurred that people were predicting exactly what came to pass. It just took 25 years to finally happen.

Do you remember any specific newspaper or trade mag articles? Or was the conversation more in private/back channel?
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