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You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

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21–30 of 170 posts

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#21
This is why B2B SaaS should stop charging enterprise price for SSO, and just REQUIRE an IdP or the Oauth/OIDC/whatever flow:

https://vaultvision.com/blog/what-is-oidc

The user experience is these "continue with" buttons:

- https://id.atlassian.com/login

- https://www.xsplit.com/user/auth

Then you don't have their account creds to lose.

Personal data, PII, etc. is risk debt.

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I actually liked the primary point of the author regarding privacy controls, and I feel some of the commenters here are being a bit harsh regarding tangential issues or missing some of the crux of what he wrote, I also so strongly agree with your point that I couldn't let it go. Apps aren't going to make you happier. If you want to be happier, go for a walk outside and go hang out with your friends, in person.

That assumes quite a bit of freedom that may not exist for many people. An Uber driver waiting for their next passenger isn’t able to go hang out with friends, but they can play on their phone, or read a book.

Sure; but it’s probably true for most of us most of the time.

I’m on HN right now instead of playing piano or going for a walk. I think I need the reminder sometimes.

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I actually liked the primary point of the author regarding privacy controls, and I feel some of the commenters here are being a bit harsh regarding tangential issues or missing some of the crux of what he wrote, I also so strongly agree with your point that I couldn't let it go. Apps aren't going to make you happier. If you want to be happier, go for a walk outside and go hang out with your friends, in person.

That assumes quite a bit of freedom that may not exist for many people. An Uber driver waiting for their next passenger isn’t able to go hang out with friends, but they can play on their phone, or read a book.

Yeah but saying "you ought to go outside / relax / rest / spend time with family" and then saying "not everyone can because shit sucks" is missing the point. Shit does suck, for a lot of people, in a lot of ways. Acknowledging that is good, but then saying the alternative for that is people to play on their phones? How about advocating for people to be able to make a wage or living and have time to hang out with friends?

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#25
post #8

What happens when Matter gets acquired? I'm sorry, but all this self back-patting is a bit too little too late for this jaded guy, especially because a thousand other companies have made the same promises in cheery blog posts, before something happens and my social security number winds up on a sticky note on some hacker's monitor in Belarus. Hell, I've worked for companies where I was forced to break users' trust be…

> What happens when Matter gets acquired That's a major point that's addressed in the blog post, did you read it?

Not sure about GP, but I did read the post. If they get acquired, I don't see anything stopping the acquirer from pushing an update that decrypts stuff and sends the plaintext to the servers.

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#26

What happens when Matter gets acquired? I'm sorry, but all this self back-patting is a bit too little too late for this jaded guy, especially because a thousand other companies have made the same promises in cheery blog posts, before something happens and my social security number winds up on a sticky note on some hacker's monitor in Belarus. Hell, I've worked for companies where I was forced to break users' trust be…

> before something happens and my social security number winds up on a sticky note on some hacker's monitor in Belarus Isn't the point of the article that they can't leak something they don't have? So if I never get your social security number from you, then I have zero risk of leaking it or exposing it to hackers. I can't give them (intentionally or unintentionally) something that I don't possess. The author says: >…

> Well the app might [...] change how it works [...] but your data never left your device, so you don't really have to worry about it being leaked to Belarus.

You're one update away from having an app that has access to all its data and can ship it anywhere. Do you keep updates off?

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I actually liked the primary point of the author regarding privacy controls, and I feel some of the commenters here are being a bit harsh regarding tangential issues or missing some of the crux of what he wrote, I also so strongly agree with your point that I couldn't let it go. Apps aren't going to make you happier. If you want to be happier, go for a walk outside and go hang out with your friends, in person.

That assumes quite a bit of freedom that may not exist for many people. An Uber driver waiting for their next passenger isn’t able to go hang out with friends, but they can play on their phone, or read a book.

Before devices, people were able to find ways to kill time at work just fine. As a human, we're perfectly capable of surviving without the device. I know that seems antithetical to zillenials, but it will be more than okay to look away from the screen for an extended period of time.

Personally, having a driver sit their counting the number of red cars or counting the number of different state license plates is equally purpose serving as doom scrolling. In fact, it's probably much less detrimental to their mental health.

It saddens me a wee bit that people think that the devices much be attended to to this extent.

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#28
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes quite a bit of freedom that may not exist for many people. An Uber driver waiting for their next passenger isn’t able to go hang out with friends, but they can play on their phone, or read a book.

Sure; but it’s probably true for most of us most of the time. I’m on HN right now instead of playing piano or going for a walk. I think I need the reminder sometimes.

Go for a walk right now!

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#29
I really love this sentiment.

Unfortunately, it also seems really hard to build many kinds of applications in a way that follows this line of thinking. I've been building a personal finance app with privacy in mind, but there are some places where you might begrudgingly "hold" a users' data that are just unavoidable. For instance, if we want to be a serious competitor and have bank integrations, then plaid etc. will require you to run a server that can see the data, even if you don't want it.

We also don't collect names in our app, just an email, but good luck collecting payments, avoiding fraud or reporting taxes without collecting name and address.

We've built our system to be as minimally invasive (e.g. in the above, financial data is only proxied to the user's device, never stored on the server), but that's only the "intention" part - there's just not a way to take the full measure.

Re: You can't leak users' data if you don't hold it

#30
post #25
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when Matter gets acquired That's a major point that's addressed in the blog post, did you read it?

Not sure about GP, but I did read the post. If they get acquired, I don't see anything stopping the acquirer from pushing an update that decrypts stuff and sends the plaintext to the servers.

This. And how likely is it that if their users value their app's data then there's an acquirer willing to wipe out all the users' data from the phones before they take over?
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