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Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

cnn.com

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#691

Post by fragmede »

kstrauser wrote: post #649
publius_0xf3 wrote: post #449

It's funny. I lost tens of thousands of dollars thanks to this individual, yet his sentence brings me no joy or arouses any emotion at all. I'm utterly indifferent to his fate for some reason and I don't know why. Yet if he had been a mugger who stole a much smaller amount of money from me on the street, I think I would've been far more vengeful. Should I feel vindictive? Or is it healthy to forget about it and move…

It’s ok and normal to feel both. If I lost tens of thousands of dollars, I’d be thinking of how much that would affect either the timing or the quality of my retirement. That would tend to make me inclined toward feeling pretty damn vindictive. And yet, the damage is done. Feels of anger and vengeance are withdrawals from your balance of available happiness and they don’t actually affect the end result. The money’s g…

> The money’s gone.

Hilariously with crypto, that's not necessarily true, for better or worse. The change in valuation of underlying crypto assets means that customers can sometimes be made "whole" - meaning they get back the value in USD they put in, but not including inflation and interest, so they're still poorer than they would be, but at least not out the whole amount. It's still not resolved, but it's possible creditors in Mt Gox will be made whole. 1 BTC was worth $760 when Mt Gox went down. Today 1 BTC is around $70k, meaning they have almost $10 billion in BTC with which to pay back creditors.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#693

Post by iamthirsty »

amelius wrote: post #660
freedomben wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely speculation on my part, but I tend to feel similarly, and I think the reason is that the mugger includes a physical threat of violence. Evolutionarily, the emergence of an economy with capital at modern-day scales are so new that we haven't had time to really adjust emotionally. It kind of reminds me of the various birds on previously untouched-by-humanity islands that had no fear of humans and would just sit…

I think humans also feel no anger towards deadly diseases. Maybe it is more comparable to that. However, I do know that people can feel very ashamed from scams like phishing attacks and caller scams.

There no intent to personally harm with a disease/virus — it's just what they do and one of the players in the game of life.

Versus someone calling you specifically to cause harm, especially when they can comprehend the harm they are intending to inflict, in your example.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#694

Post by jmyeet »

publius_0xf3 wrote: post #449

It's funny. I lost tens of thousands of dollars thanks to this individual, yet his sentence brings me no joy or arouses any emotion at all. I'm utterly indifferent to his fate for some reason and I don't know why. Yet if he had been a mugger who stole a much smaller amount of money from me on the street, I think I would've been far more vengeful. Should I feel vindictive? Or is it healthy to forget about it and move…

Sorry for your loss.

I'm actually surprised the sentence is this low. This is Bernie Madoff territory.

This doesn't get you your money back. It doesn't even necessarily make you feel better so what's the point? This gets into the philosophy of a criminal justice system.

The noble idea behind the criminal justice system is to be restorative. The offender is to be reformed so they don't repeat their crimes and can become productive members of society. This is why we push for things like education in prison, access to mental health treatment and so on. It's for our collective good. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system in the US is predominantly retributive. We punish to make ourselves feel better. There is a ton of evidence of this and it lays bare other societal issues (eg racial disparity in sentencing).

One big argument is whether heavy sentences prevent others from committing crimes. This has been used to justify, for example, three strikes laws and 10+ year sentences for mere drug possession at the height of the war on drugs. None of this works. Such crimes are the result of over-policing, up-charging by prosecutors and material conditions.

But where it actually works is with rich people. Why? Because you fine a company or a rich person and that becomes the cost of doing business. It's factored in. But depriving the wealthy of their liberty is something the wealthy want to desperately avoid.

Case in point: the Sackler family, who are hugely responsible for the opiod epidemic by knowingly lying about the addictiveness of Oxycontin. If I had my way, the Sacklers would have every asset they own seized and they would all spend the rest of their lives in a prison cell.

Put SBF's sentence in context: this Californian man was sentenced to 10 years for carjacking and robbing a gas station with a BB gun [1]. That's roughly half of SBF's sentence. Who do you think has done more societal harm?

[1]: https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/los-angeles-man-sentenc...

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#695

Post by dj_mc_merlin »

silent_cal wrote: post #650
spxneo wrote: post #528

Been following SBF for a long time and this quote my local rabbi told me once comes to mind: "spxneo, if you deceive people that demands to be deceived, you will be rich. if you are truthful with those people that demands to be deceived, you will become enemies. if you are truthful with people that demands truth, you will be neither friends nor enemies and poor."

Am I misinterpreting this, or was your rabbi recommending that you deceive people?

This is how I read it as well. If the rest of Judaism is like this I might consider converting to it.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#696

Post by bitcharmer »

kolbe wrote: post #644
tptacek wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Lewis's book is that it was pretty clear it was an on-a-dime pivot from the original story he had planned to tell, about a wunderkind revolutionizing finance and trying to save the world at the same time.

And Lewis was into the original plot less than this one. Lewis is clearly on board with the progressive inclination to say that their cause is more important than operating within traditional bounds on behavior. Lewis was on board with SBF's irresponsible approach to risk management and regulatory oversight, because unlike Wall Streeters taking excessive risk for personal gain, SBF doing it for the sake of "improving…

Yup, I'm really surprised by people defending Lewis. Don't get me wrong, I own most of his books but his 60 minutes interview about SBF was a cringe fest.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#697

Post by legendofbrando »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #685

Reposting one of my comments that wasn't particularly liked when i originally submitted it but i think becomes more relevant now. ``` I find such white-collar crimes very interesting because of the math between crime and punishment. For the crime that SBF is alleged to have committed, we can reasonably expect 20 yrs (he will be out in 10-12). But if he had committed a murder, he would be in prison for life (no parole…

The point of the punishment is to tell you how much we don’t want you to do it. You get life for murder because we really don’t want people killing people. Fleecing them out of money is bad, but we can (literally) print more of it. Once someone is dead we can’t bring them back.

Your analysis is flawed because you’re looking at the problem from the vantage of collective outcomes. A murderer is one person who is making a decision to take an action that can end one or many lives. You want them to weigh that heavily as an absolute cost (I will go to prison forever if caught) not some relative cost (well if I just murder a little then I’ll only get a little punishment).

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#698

Post by cbg0 »

bearjaws wrote: post #360
segasaturn wrote: post #31

For those wondering, prosecutors asked for 50 years in prison, defense asked for 5 years. So this sentence is right down the middle. 50 years in prison would have been way too long IMO.

Stole 1% from the pension fund for Ontario's teachers. Stole unknown amounts of peoples retirement. Ruined many peoples lives. How is 50 years too long? The literal largest fraud case in history doesn't even have a life sentence... We are sending a clear message, grift and steal your way to the top and then get out just in time to retire with all your stolen goods. You know when he gets out he is gonna go unlock a de…

> You know when he gets out he is gonna go unlock a dead wallet with 100BTC (or some other coin) in it and become an expat.

This assumes both that he has such a wallet and that BTC will still be worth something when he gets out.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#699

Post by s3r3nity »

rustcleaner wrote: post #514
s3r3nity wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actions have consequences. Billions of dollars of fraud that took years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to prove should have a sentence that is a strong deterrent to future crime probabilities.

The next SBF will not think about SBF even if he knows about SBF. Deterrence Theory is back-justification to make yourself feel good about the crime that is going to happen to SBF for a quarter century just like millions of others today. This isn't living in a Motel 6 like apartment working at an Amazon warehouse for 25 years never making enough to save a dime despite putting in 50+ hours on average, with no economic…

> Deterrence Theory is back-justification to make yourself feel good

Retribution is a valid component of justice.[1]

[1] Stolen from another commenter above

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