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LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

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Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#61
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea except it's a lossy compression. With the lost part being hallucinated in at inference time.

If you've read the article, the LLM hallucinations aren't due to the model not knowing the information but a function that choose to remember the wrong thing.

even this place has people not reading the articles. we are doomed

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because papers are getting published doesn't mean its actually gaining any traction. I mean we have known that time series of signals recieves plays a huge role in how bio neurons functionally operate and yet we have nearly no examples of spiking networks being pushed beyond basic academic exploration. We have known glial cells play a critical role in biological neural and yet you can probably count the number o…

"We" are not forbidding you to open a computer, start experimenting and publishing some new method. If you're so convinced that "we" are stuck in a local maxima, you can do some of the work you are advocating instead of asking other to do it for you.

You can think chemotherapy is a local maxima for cancer treatment and hope medical research seeks out other options without having the resources to do it yourself. Not all of us have access to the tools and resources to start experimenting as casually as we wish we could.

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#64
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because feedforward topologies with single neuron steps are the easiest to train and run on graphics cards does that really make them the actual best at accomplishing tasks? You are ignoring a mountain of papers trying all conceivable approaches to create models. It is evolution by selection, in the end transformers won.

Just because papers are getting published doesn't mean its actually gaining any traction. I mean we have known that time series of signals recieves plays a huge role in how bio neurons functionally operate and yet we have nearly no examples of spiking networks being pushed beyond basic academic exploration. We have known glial cells play a critical role in biological neural and yet you can probably count the number o…

Do you really think that transformers came to us from God? They're built on the corpses of millions of models that never went anywhere. I spent an entire year trying to scale up a stupid RNN back in 2014. Never went anywhere, because it didn't work. I am sure we are stuck in a local minima now - but it's able to solve problems that were previously impossible. So we will use it until we are impossibly stuck again. Currently, however, we have barely begun to scratch the surface of what's possible with these models.

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#65
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. It may be possible to directly upload predicate-type info into a LLM. This could be especially useful if you need to encode tabular data. Somewhere, someone probably read this and is thinking about how to export Excel or databases to an LLM. It's encouraging to see people looking inside the black box successfully. The other big result in this area was that paper which found a representation of a…

The opposite is also exciting: build a loss function that punishes models for storing knowledge. One of the issues of current models is that they seem to favor lookup over reasoning. If we can punish models (during training) for remembering that might cause them to become better at inference and logic instead.

[deleted]

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#66

This is amazing work, but to me it highlights some of the biggest problems in the current AI zeitgeist, we are not really trying to work on any neuron or ruleset that isnt much different from the perceptron thats just a sumnation function. Is it really that suprising that we just see this same structure repeated in the models. Just because feedforward topologies with single neuron steps are the easiest to train and r…

Cannot understand people claiming we are in a local maxima, when we literally had an ai scientific breakthrough only in the last two years.

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#67
I think this paper is cool and I love that they ran these experiments to validate these ideas. However, I'm having trouble reconciling the novelty of the ideas themselves. Isn't this result expected given that LLM's naturally learn simple statistical trends between words? To me it's way cooler that they clearly demonstrated not all LLM behavior can be explained this simply.

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#68
post #51

This is amazing work, but to me it highlights some of the biggest problems in the current AI zeitgeist, we are not really trying to work on any neuron or ruleset that isnt much different from the perceptron thats just a sumnation function. Is it really that suprising that we just see this same structure repeated in the models. Just because feedforward topologies with single neuron steps are the easiest to train and r…

> Just because feedforward topologies with single neuron steps are the easiest to train and run on graphics cards does that really make them the actual best at accomplishing tasks? You are ignoring a mountain of papers trying all conceivable approaches to create models. It is evolution by selection, in the end transformers won.

His point is that "evolution by selection" also includes that transformers are easy to implement with modern linear algebra libraries and cheap to scale on current silicon, both of which are engineering details with no direct relationship to their innate efficacy at learning (though indirectly it means you scale up the training data for more inefficient learning).

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#69
post #62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" are not forbidding you to open a computer, start experimenting and publishing some new method. If you're so convinced that "we" are stuck in a local maxima, you can do some of the work you are advocating instead of asking other to do it for you.

You can think chemotherapy is a local maxima for cancer treatment and hope medical research seeks out other options without having the resources to do it yourself. Not all of us have access to the tools and resources to start experimenting as casually as we wish we could.

Not a single one of you bigbrains used the word "maxima" correctly and it's driving me crazy.

Re: LLMs use a surprisingly simple mechanism to retrieve some stored knowledge

#70
post #62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" are not forbidding you to open a computer, start experimenting and publishing some new method. If you're so convinced that "we" are stuck in a local maxima, you can do some of the work you are advocating instead of asking other to do it for you.

You can think chemotherapy is a local maxima for cancer treatment and hope medical research seeks out other options without having the resources to do it yourself. Not all of us have access to the tools and resources to start experimenting as casually as we wish we could.

MNIST and other small and easy to train against datasets are widely available. You can try out anything you like even with a cheap laptop these days thanks to a few decades of Moore's law.

It is definitely NOT out of your reach to try any ideas you have. Kaggle and other sites exist to make it easy.

Good luck! 8)

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