An uncle once commented about a cousin of ours that he demonstrated how it's possible to screw things up so badly that you can't possibly recover. I think that's true for Sam. I hope it's not true for the people in his orbit; I hope they can get out from under this and try to find meaning, ideally from repairing the harm they've done. As Rick Heicklen writes, "We are not ever going to be Sam. But we could be Caroline…
No dog in this race either way, but what is Michael Lewis meant to have done? Is it just that people feel hist treatment of SBF in Going Infinite was too lenient?
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
One life sentence and that was based largely on him paying to have five people murdered.
Two life sentences for charges that had nothing to do with the alleged murder-for-hire. Those charges were dropped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht#Trial
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#473I love HN, it's one of the few places you can get reasoned conversation online. But this is one of those subjects where it gets weird. SBF was directly responsible for millions, if not billions, of direct monetary loss to identified individuals. Yet the top comments on HN are all discussing whether incarceration is retribution, spite, deterrence, or rehabilition. The USA incarcerates people for tiny financial damages…
> $20 of theft? 5 years away Who in this day and age is going to jail for half a decade because they snuck a 20 dollar bill out of the cash register when no one was looking? There are almost always violent actions involved that are conveniently glossed over whenever someone bemoans “life in prison for stealing a loaf of bread!”
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#474It's funny. I lost tens of thousands of dollars thanks to this individual, yet his sentence brings me no joy or arouses any emotion at all. I'm utterly indifferent to his fate for some reason and I don't know why. Yet if he had been a mugger who stole a much smaller amount of money from me on the street, I think I would've been far more vengeful. Should I feel vindictive? Or is it healthy to forget about it and move…
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, I didn't find Lewis's book as bad (or amoral) as it's often made out to be. Yes, he didn't put his judgement in every paragraph, but his description of SBF was: a) absolutely damning! SBF's lack of empathy, his notion that (given that everyone else is stupid) he knew best and should basically ignore the advice of everyone else (particularly his elders), his naive utilitarianism without any deontological/virtue…
I very much agree. "Number go up" by Faux is the better book in many respects, but Lewis's book contains much background info not reported elsewhere. Lewis's book is damning about SBF as you said. About how unapologetic and manipulative he is. About his willingness to gamble with other people's money. About his complete lack of ethical boundaries. About the casual way SBF ignored all laws he didn't like. About SBF's…
Very nicely put.
Book recommendations: Faux Number go up is beautifully reported, in particular on the many scam and trafficking victims, the culture (Bored Ape parties), some of the players (eg SBF, the Tether people, etc.), and the underlying anarcho-capitalist mindset.
On the impact on the underprivileged (that the "check your financial privilege" and "banking the unbanked" predatory inclusion crypto crowd purports to care so much for), the green-washing of Bitcoin, the crypto philanthropy "bad samaritans", Metaverse and Web3, check Peter Howson's Let Them Eat Crypto.
Ben McKenzie and Jacob Silverman's Easy Money is another non-technical examination of fraud in crypto, El Salvador, and the severe consequences for victims.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#476This type of punishment is actually pretty terrible for all parties. I could easily see a different, harsher, but more fair punishment... 1. All assets are sold off to pay victims 2. Prison for a few years. 5? 3. can only work jobs where nobody reports to them (no management, C levels, etc). Also cannot make companies. 4. Cannot own more than 2 properties, one of which is his place of residence. 5. Cannot rent out an…
Agreed. 10 years is pretty much a life sentence already; who is the same person that they were a decade ago? Sentences beyond 10 years are not instructive but punitive and sadistic: if you're putting people in cages for that long then justice would be better served to banish. International waters? Make an interior Australia on federal lands over a few States: walled off with full security entry/exit points?
Not only is taking so many years equivalent to partial death, without the normalcies prison strips from its victims (yes America's prisoners are victims like the Brit's victims of hang-em for everything were still victims) it effectively kills off the family lines of these people because only a few states have conjugal visits. Most prisoners in the US are in enforced inceldom. If you argue crime is genetic and it's a good thing they are prevented from reproducing, then you just contravened civils rights arguments against that.
As bad as the American ones are, Japan treats you worse. I got to hear my internet friend and troll JS on voice chat after Japan let him out of jail, what he said completely disabused me of any interest in visiting that place. It's soft torture not by exposure to appaling conditions (US), but by excruciating and consistent techniques of 'light' torture employed, such as only being able to sit/kneal and lay in two positions almost every bit of all 24-hour periods and being unable to communicate with anybody. It is a mental solitary confinement, and if I witnessed some parent treat even an "unruly child" the way the Japanese system treats those in their custody, I would see pink mist/red cave and be sent off to prison for a long time myself.
Zimbardo's prison experiment decades ago should have indicated to us that we are experiencing dozens of holocaust-tier human rights crises (sans the mass deaths) every year these things continue to operate in current form.
If you can't treat them as human in prison (partial autonomy, dignity), then you are saying they are criminally insane. If they are insane, they need to be in an assylum and not a dungeon (assylums had {and may still have [idk]} their own serious issues too). Prison should never be punitive, that is partially killing someone to punish them. Deterrence Theory is century old bunk we tell ourselves so we don't feel bad for Uncle Ned possibly being equivalent to a camp guard in a massive human rights quagmire made trying to address a millennia-old problem.
Wow, this turned into a rant! Time to smack submit, push the hemorrhoid back up, flush, and be done! :^)
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#477This type of punishment is actually pretty terrible for all parties. I could easily see a different, harsher, but more fair punishment... 1. All assets are sold off to pay victims 2. Prison for a few years. 5? 3. can only work jobs where nobody reports to them (no management, C levels, etc). Also cannot make companies. 4. Cannot own more than 2 properties, one of which is his place of residence. 5. Cannot rent out an…
Don't forget he has ruined many peoples lives, and probably driven quite a few to kill themselves.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#47825 years seems excessive. Funk, for murder they get 10 years in Sweden. Yes, fraud is bad but he didn't kill nobody. I think 5 years would have had been enough.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#479It's funny. I lost tens of thousands of dollars thanks to this individual, yet his sentence brings me no joy or arouses any emotion at all. I'm utterly indifferent to his fate for some reason and I don't know why. Yet if he had been a mugger who stole a much smaller amount of money from me on the street, I think I would've been far more vengeful. Should I feel vindictive? Or is it healthy to forget about it and move…
Perhaps previous exit scams in the crypto space dulled your senses? If anything, I feel like you should share your story to protect others, especially during times when crypto is peaking (like now) and others are tempted to jump in: use exchanges to buy/sell and get out, store your keys on a cold storage device, and transfer out fiat ASAP.
Money doesn't come from nowhere. For every dollar you make on crypto, somone loses a dollar. All these BS coins do is shuffle wealth from the unlucky gamblers to the lucky ones. Go spend your money at a casino instead.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison
#480From the article, SBF will likely be out in 2036, at the age of 45. There’s a good chance he’ll get himself into shenanigans again, if not already from inside prison.