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Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

library.harvard.edu

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is some distinction in the world between things we treat as historical artifacts and those we don't. I haven't seen anyone make a compelling case for why this particular item is a significant historical artifact, other than that it was already in the collection of Harvard Library. We pass up things that could be preserved all the time. Curation is an intrinsic part of preservation.

Well, if it's not a significant item, does it need to be changed in the first place, then? I agree though about passing things that could be preserved, but it usually involves a tradeoff, when things are too costly to maintain, or old building needs to give place for new one. Even museums aren't the place for a collective diogen syndrom. The slightly heinous thing about this case though is that no tradeoff at all see…

> The slightly heinous thing about this case though is that no tradeoff at all seemed to be involved for this book, no cost of preservation was cited

The tradeoff is that we have two potential futures here:

Option A: Someone's skin non-consensually remains used as the cover of a book.

Option B: Someone's skin is returned to their family or buried, and the book is re-covered.

What is the benefit of Option A?

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The issue is as much a diagnosis of the academic culture which came to this decision: it's quite alarming that academics are on the side of 'cultural sensitivities' rather than against them. We have churches; we have political parties. What use is an academia that prays and "advocates for change" ? Academia should, by any reasonable sense of its mission, defend the preservation of works to be studied; regardless of t…

> defend the preservation of works to be studied

If someone today makes a human-centipede, like in the movie, and declares it art, are academics supposed to advocate for preserving it for ever and study it just because it happened?

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#83
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you feel if after a century of your skin being on a book, that was then 'disposed of'? This 'disposing' isnt being consented to either. Why should it be that non-consentual creation is a sin, but not non-consentual destruction?

“Disposed of” is what we do with corpses usually. Society tends to put quite a lot of weight on doing it the right way. If your home town was invaded tonight, everyone you know and love there killed, and their skin used to upholster the president’s favorite recliner, would that make their remains an artifact now? What more is there to learn in keeping a corpse unburied in this case?

Exactly.

I don't bill myself as an expert on early 20th-century burial practices in America, but I'm willing the hazard the default expectation was "ground" rather than "use to make a book cover."

Ergo, it seems in keeping with the deceased's likely wishes to properly bury their remains.

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#84
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider myself much concerned with my body after death. But I'd feel some kind of way if someone flayed my skin off my cadaver to make a book cover. Even being a skeleton in an anatomy class seems more purposeful.

You could do both!

This made me laugh. Kudos on the quip.

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#85
post #54

Absolutely indefensible position. Destroying artifacts and evidence of the past simply because we don't agree with what happened in the past is a vile sin that our descendants will never forgive us for.

Would it be okay if the skin, instead of being from an anonymous hospital patient it were from Abe Lincoln, or Sitting Bull, Mahatma Gandhi or Susan B Anthony?

[dead]

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#86
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, destruction of important heritage with absolutely ridiculous claims. Taliban level shit.

If one were to slice the ear off of a dead body, mount it, and frame it on their wall, at what point does it stop being gross evidence of a crime and start becoming an important historical artifact and part of our heritage? How many months, how many years? Does it matter if the person who did it is a respected scholar or a convicted serial killer?

85 years and 3 months

with an extra 10 years for respected scholars

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#87

Absolutely indefensible position. Destroying artifacts and evidence of the past simply because we don't agree with what happened in the past is a vile sin that our descendants will never forgive us for.

I believe Harvard destroyed all the nude student photos, would you have insisted they kept those too? I don’t see much value in either.

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is as much a diagnosis of the academic culture which came to this decision: it's quite alarming that academics are on the side of 'cultural sensitivities' rather than against them. We have churches; we have political parties. What use is an academia that prays and "advocates for change" ? Academia should, by any reasonable sense of its mission, defend the preservation of works to be studied; regardless of t…

> defend the preservation of works to be studied If someone today makes a human-centipede, like in the movie, and declares it art, are academics supposed to advocate for preserving it for ever and study it just because it happened?

The key to your example is, if they are alive.

Cadavers are used in medical school. Where is the moral outrage.

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#89
I find the notion of using human skin for a book binding horrible and macabre even if consent was given. One would have to question the mind of anyone who found the practice acceptable.

Just reading the title alone heightened my sensibilities as it immediately reminded me of such Nazis atrocities where they made objects out of the skin of their victims.

That was my emotional self talking and I'd expect it would always be my initial reaction, but when my rational self kicked in moments later I immediately asked what motivated these Harvard idiots to so act, was it out of some kind of perverse political correctness? If not, then what was their motivation?

It seems to me these people are both unprofessional and irresponsible and should not be charged with the responsibility of housing and managing important historical items. The principal responsibilities of museums is to preserve historical artifacts in their original unaltered form as is best possible and keep them safely housed for posterity and for the benefit and education of future generations.

It is not the job of museums to alter museum pieces because they don't like some aspect about them, and to do so clearly smacks of vandalism. If an institution is so offended by some object in its collection then it can either remove it from normal viewing and make it only available to researchers, or alternatively, give it to another museum that does not take offense (there'll always be others willing to take the object off their hands).

Let's put this book into perspective. There are aspects about it that are deemed sordid by today's ethical standards but that does not devalue its historical significance, in fact a knowledge and understanding of how the object acquired these attributes make it all the more important from an historical perspective, ipso facto it will also be more valuable. Vandalizing it will make it less so on every account.

Now let's compare the historical aspects of this book with other objects commonly found in many museums that also could be deemed to have 'sordid' backgrounds. If other museums similarly applied Harvard's sanctimonious ethical attitudes to this class of items in their collections then many thousands of objects would have to be withdrawn from display.

For instance, modern and ancient weapons of war—guns, howitzers, Roman, Greek and Viking swords, and a myriad of other things whose very existence—their raison d'être—is based on ethical standards that many of us today would now consider abhorrent and repugnant but we don't alter or destroy them.

Similarly, after WWII we didn't destroy hideous places such as Auschwitz and Buchenwald but kept them for their great historical significance and to remind present and future generations of the horrors that took place there.

What I find outrageous is that these days many professionals find it acceptable to try to 'correct' history (as in the case of this Harvard book). Why they cannot see and just accept that ethical and societal values were very different in the past than now—and that every era had its own standards and ethical values, many of which were brutal.

Over recent decades there's a collective lemming-like cultural attitude developed amongst many professionals who ought to know better, they refuse to criticize idiocy and outright hypocrisy even at the expense of both their professionalism and their professions, and they often so act out of fear of being labeled politically incorrect.

I'm damned if I know how these people can ditch logic and reason and still live with their consciences.

Re: Harvard University removes human skin binding from book

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it's not a significant item, does it need to be changed in the first place, then? I agree though about passing things that could be preserved, but it usually involves a tradeoff, when things are too costly to maintain, or old building needs to give place for new one. Even museums aren't the place for a collective diogen syndrom. The slightly heinous thing about this case though is that no tradeoff at all see…

> it's just modifying the past I'm not sure what you mean by this; obviously the "history" of the book is known and not being suppressed. Nobody is denying the origin of the book; if it had been a significant historical artifact, I'm sure the judgment would have been different. "You're destroying history!" is a common refrain when Jim Crow-era statues commemorating confederate generals are removed, or when, e.g., the…

So, with the same argument, nothing of value was lost when taliban destroyed the statues of Buddha, since we can read about those in books?

There's value in physical artifact too, it's sad to destroy those out of righteousness.

As for the statue, where those statue removed or destroyed/melted ? If it's the latter, then yes it's also historicidal, even if it's for the 'bad guys'.

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