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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#421

Post by danparsonson »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #332
em-bee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. when our first was born we moved to live a few km from the grandparents, and ther…

I thought you were going to say it for a minute there - the cultural component that you speak of that I feel is missing in our US culture during the younger years is 'duty' I was also a mess in my 20s and i had a lot of growing up to do to prepare for kids. Yet. Even after kids, I didnt really grow up quickly enough until kids forced the issue. Having kids and being responsible for someone else who is solely deoenden…

I personally think it stems from a strong focus on individualism in the western (and, increasingly, the wider) world. We're all taught to prioritise our own needs over those of others around us, and go it alone if necessary to achieve that.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#422

Post by anonym29 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #295
analyte123 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that green ammonia costs between $800 and $1500 per ton today to produce [1]. While this is higher than conventional ammonia, it is less than how much ammonia cost in the 2022 energy crisis [2] and likely to decrease further in the future. Massive amounts of nitrogen fertilizer are wasted because it's so cheap [3]. There's headroom for bringing back crop rotation of nitrogen-fixing crops. Nitrogen-fixi…

Anybody who argues that "we're all going to die" is, from where I sit, clearly delusional. So that's not really a problem worth refuting. On the other hand, hundreds of millions of people dying, 10s of millions of species going extinct, massive migration causing chaos in our current understanding of "nation states", sea level rise causing the abandonment and destruction of many of the world's great cities ... these a…

Hundreds of millions of people die from war, and avoiding war is a lot easier than what the (well-meaning) climate change evangelists/zealots want us to do. You don't need to destroy the entire modern economy and western civilization to avoid war.

Also, why is it that the people constantly screaming about sea levels rising are the same millionaires and billionaires who own $$$$$ properties in places like Miami or Martha's Vineyard, which are ostensibly going to be underwater within their lifetime, if true?

Migration can be ultimately be summed up as someone else's problem, if you have a political elite with enough backbone to represent the interests of the citizens of their own country above those of non-citizens.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#423

Post by pyuser583 »

supertofu wrote: post #417

The framing of this essay bothers me, because it suggests that losing great-grandmothers is a bad thing. But why can't we focus on the enormous positive effect of girls having the option to fully mature into women before bearing their children? Maybe instead of focusing what we lose with the absence of great-grandmothers, we should focus on what we gain with the decline of girl-mothers.

There’s a huge and well thought out consensus teenage parenthood is bad.

It’s talked about a lot. Not as much as it used to be, but that’s because it’s become common sense. People don’t talk about common sense consensus positions.

But good things can have bad side effects, and people can be so happy about the good thing, they don’t see the bad thing.

Talk about the advantages of delayed child bearing all you want, but it won’t be a particularly original conversation.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#424

Post by mplewis »

hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

Visit any WIC clinic. Grandmas are always the ones picking up the societal slack.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#425

Post by [deleted] »

hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

[deleted]

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#426

Post by anonym29 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #395
skulk wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your second paragraph ("they design") not directly fly in the face of your first ("mistake this for an active, purposeful goal")?

Because the two aren't connected. They do want to design school curricula... "to make it better". But they're neither smart enough nor quite so self-aware that it's designed to deliberately lower fertility rates. One might say they're doing it subconsciously, but that seems more like mumbo jumbo to me.

Hanlon's Razor always seemed like the perfect cover for deliberately committing malicious acts without others being able to identify the activity as deliberately malicious. You do evil shit and then you just play dumb.

How can anyone prove your intents if you fully conceal them?

That said, I do find your argument here pretty compelling. Hanlon's Razor exists for a reason, at the end of the day.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#427

Post by ein0p »

digging wrote: post #408
ein0p wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who had his first kid at 23, you grow up real quick once you become a parent. Moreover I doubt it’s even possible for a person to fully mature if they don’t have kids. Or to really understand their own parents for that matter.

> Moreover I doubt it’s even possible for a person to fully mature if they don’t have kids. This is my favorite of the lies parents tell, it's so obviously nonsensical

I take it you don't have kids.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#428

Post by supertofu »

pyuser583 wrote: post #423
supertofu wrote: post #417

The framing of this essay bothers me, because it suggests that losing great-grandmothers is a bad thing. But why can't we focus on the enormous positive effect of girls having the option to fully mature into women before bearing their children? Maybe instead of focusing what we lose with the absence of great-grandmothers, we should focus on what we gain with the decline of girl-mothers.

There’s a huge and well thought out consensus teenage parenthood is bad. It’s talked about a lot. Not as much as it used to be, but that’s because it’s become common sense. People don’t talk about common sense consensus positions. But good things can have bad side effects, and people can be so happy about the good thing, they don’t see the bad thing. Talk about the advantages of delayed child bearing all you want, bu…

I don't really care if the conversation is original, if it means we live in a world where girls are granted the opportunity to grow in knowledge and experience before sacrificing their bodies and lives to childbearing and childrearing.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#429

Post by CWJeff »

hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

I've always had an even worse idea, ethically speaking, that I think would combine well with yours : the first generation would raise the third, as you said, but that third generation would be born out of the frozen gametes of the now deceased zero generation.

That way, embryos would only be created after the death of both biological parents, which would give you whole lives to look at to decide if you wanted these persons to reproduce.

That would open the way to some interesting possibilities in directing human evolution while opening a whole new world of horrific abuse and creative eugenics.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#430

Post by imacomputer »

jzb wrote: post #378
hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

Even leaving aside the ethics (which...yikes) I think this kind of falls down, logically. Parents want to become grandparents after having the experience of being parents. If you cut the "being parents" out of that cycle, why would you even want grand kids? And having been parents prepares grandparents to step in if needed. If you skip the parenting step, why would they be any better at it just because they're 20 yea…

> Also, frankly, infants are hard.

Honestly, they are as difficult as you want them to be. Some parents stress way to much about them hurting themselves in the process.

If you take everything in moderation, they are not that bad at all. There will be a few bad days ofc, but at large my kids are the best thing that happened to me, and I have two at the same age.

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