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50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

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21–30 of 76 posts

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#21
post #15

Does this account for the changes in how spending is reported? Is all defense spending under defense? or is there a lot hidden under education and health? I have played with too many budgets to accept things like this at face value.

Good question. Does the "defense spending" category include the trillion dollar wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? George W. Bush's administration conveniently swept the wars' costs into a "supplemental" budget separate from the DoD budget.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#22
post #15

Does this account for the changes in how spending is reported? Is all defense spending under defense? or is there a lot hidden under education and health? I have played with too many budgets to accept things like this at face value.

Good question. Does the "defense spending" category include the trillion dollar wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? George W. Bush's administration conveniently swept the wars' costs into a "supplemental" budget separate from the DoD budget.

"The figures in the graph include veterans' benefits as well as funding for current operations."

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#23
post #8

The other thing that would be good to see is the percentage of GDP that the spending represents. Here is one here: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1903_2010...

The most amazing thing I take away from that chart, having lived in both Europe and the U.S., is how little the U.S. taxpayer gets for their money in comparison, I'm guessing because spending crept up slowly without any real planning. For example, the U.S., Canadian, and Norwegian governments each spend about 40% of GDP, but somehow Norwegians and Canadians get a much stronger set of social services (including state-…

A big part of our problems are the calculations that were used to justify Social Security and Medicare (over half our budget). Neither program was built to last more than two generations. The politicians that created them didn't care about that (FDR and LBJ), in typical intentional short-sightedness. Both programs were designed to be flush early so they could be plundered. Instead of having trillions sitting in a sovereign fund earning interest, we have a blackhole of entitlement liabilities.

In other words, the biggest problem with our social systems is theft. The money was used over two generations to buy votes.

edit: it's interesting to try to calculate it roughly, but, it seems fair to estimate that the politicians have spent an inflation adjusted $30+ trillion beyond their means over the last 70 years ($16 trillion public debt, plus the money that should have been put aside and earning interest from SS and Medicare etc).

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#24
post #8

The other thing that would be good to see is the percentage of GDP that the spending represents. Here is one here: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1903_2010...

The most amazing thing I take away from that chart, having lived in both Europe and the U.S., is how little the U.S. taxpayer gets for their money in comparison, I'm guessing because spending crept up slowly without any real planning. For example, the U.S., Canadian, and Norwegian governments each spend about 40% of GDP, but somehow Norwegians and Canadians get a much stronger set of social services (including state-…

Gas is subsidized by wars in the US. If you keep that in mind, the value that they get from their money is not that low.

Edit: Please do not down-vote just because you don't agree. The second Gulf War was explicitly called OIL (Operation Iraqi Liberation). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Military_... and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoSBqs6y8uM

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#25
post #15

Does this account for the changes in how spending is reported? Is all defense spending under defense? or is there a lot hidden under education and health? I have played with too many budgets to accept things like this at face value.

No, a lot of defense spending is not hidden under health.

$850x billion is spent on the military. That has doubled since the mid 1990s, and so has everything else roughly.

Now, if you want to consider whether the CIA is an arm of the military, that's a fair issue. If you want to look into the drug trade and how much money the US Government makes from that, that's another fair issue. Also, should the NSA be considered a military wing, because it has a $80 billion budget all by itself.... If you count those types of police state entities, then the military spending is another 5% of the budget.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#26
Should be titled '3 years of government spending in one graph' as it seems to completely fail in putting the figures into context by skipping intervening years, so we have no idea from this whether this is representative, or cherry picked for effect.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#27
post #20

And here's another graph of government spending effectiveness: cato.org/images/testimony/coulson-2-9-11-2.jpg Imagine if that were - Price vs. Hard Drive space, OR - Price vs. Computer Chip We would be paying more for slower computers! Yet when the government spends, and produces outcomes like these, the cry is always for "more funding." To make this concrete, many people on HN are involved in startups. If you showed…

I'd feel better about that graph if it wasn't so horribly spun. The vertical scale is showing a delta from the original value, not the value. It looks like an exponential explosion in spending when it's actually about 3.5x since 1970. Honestly, if I were an investor and a startup tried to sell me that chart, I'd walk out of the room. The broader point is valid, though. Education policy in the US sucks. But the detail…

No need to ridicule libertarians like that. There are different kinds of libertarians, different movements, and not all have such simple ways of thinking. At least libertarians invite criticism in the field of inflated government spendings.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#28

Interesting that, contrary to what I had assumed, social security is completely flat in its budget share from 1987 to 2011.

The baby boomers start hitting full retirement age in 2012. Will be interesting to see the same stat in 5-10 years.

Yep, 20,000 boomers a day retiring over the next 15 years or so. A fiscal disaster.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#29
post #7

Reality has a liberal bias.

Time has a liberal bias. Last generation's liberal is this generation's moderate.

Not true. A right wing lower taxes point of view 55 years ago was to drop the top taxes on rich people from over 90% to about 70%. A right wing lower taxes point of view now is to drop taxes on rich people from 15% to 10%. And anyone who thinks that having more tax brackets with much higher top tax rates is viewed as a radical.

Re: 50 Years Of Government Spending, In 1 Graph

#30
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time has a liberal bias. Last generation's liberal is this generation's moderate.

[deleted]

Fiscally I think you're correct as people's views are heavily affected by economic cycles. As the current young generation gets old we'll remember how the recession affected us as we entered the workforce. We'll also have to deal with the debt by then resulting in a more fiscally conservative electorate than we have now.

Socially, we've been consistently getting more and more liberal since the country was founded. Gay marriage is the latest example. Despite North Carolina, polls have shown that support for gay marriage is very much generational.

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