The window for great-grandmothers is closing • Hacker News Board

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#361

Post by brabel » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 11:37 AM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #313

serf wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can distinctly remember it hitting me like a bus that I was now wholly responsible for a human. the problem of course being that some individuals never hit upon that realization -- and the statistics regarding the matter make it look like that revelation is more likely to come to an individual who is older, financially secure, and mentally well. > It’s harder when you are older, but I’m financially better off so t…

Another thing not yet mentioned is that it literally becomes physically more difficult to have children as you age. Female fertility starts to rapidly drop in their thirties, and many will hit menopause in their 40s. The exact age is somewhat random, and some women will even enter menopause in their 30s. Before I had children I thought it would be relatively easy - that's why you use birth control after all. But when…

I've been trying to convince my wife to have at least one child, but I'm afraid it's too late already. She's 43.

You've just made me think it would be a bad idea anyway at this point :(.

Oh well, at least I have many nieces.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#362

Post by brabel » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 11:45 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #236

Afton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

> The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. How common is it that people are incompetent to raise kids in their 20s, versus people who may not presently have everything together because nobody expects anything from or depends on them?

Great point. Most people are perfectly capable of raising to the occasion, but while there's no occasion they just stay in the comfort of their responsibility-free lives... I say, enjoy it while it lasts!

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#363

Post by somenameforme » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 11:53 AM UTC

brabel wrote: post #361

somenameforme wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing not yet mentioned is that it literally becomes physically more difficult to have children as you age. Female fertility starts to rapidly drop in their thirties, and many will hit menopause in their 40s. The exact age is somewhat random, and some women will even enter menopause in their 30s. Before I had children I thought it would be relatively easy - that's why you use birth control after all. But when…

I've been trying to convince my wife to have at least one child, but I'm afraid it's too late already. She's 43. You've just made me think it would be a bad idea anyway at this point :(. Oh well, at least I have many nieces.

I think it's more like start early > start late > start never. There's more hurdles, and less chance of success - but I definitely wouldn't say it's a bad idea. The worst that happens is nothing happens. I sincerely hope you two at least try. Good luck.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#364

Post by jncfhnb » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:35 PM UTC

throwway120385 wrote: post #189

jncfhnb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic situation of your mom having a great career is not the same as the economic situation of today; appeal to her hard work considered. People cannot afford to have kids like they used to. And yes, the older grandparents make this much worse because they’re now a costly liability rather than a useful child watcher. I find the idea that people haven’t considered downsides of waiting to have kids to be grating…

> I find the idea that people haven’t considered downsides of waiting to have kids to be grating personally Why do you care about what other people do? It's not harming you.

Publicly asserting incorrect reasons why people do things is in fact harmful due the social dialogue it creates.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#365

Post by fkyoureadthedoc » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:41 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #135

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got fairly unlucky in the great grandparent department. My grandmother had my mom at 15, and my mom had me at 19, and all my great grandparents were already dead!

oh wow, talk about having the best conditions to have your great grandparents around for quite a while, and still no luck. at what age did they have your grandmother? i am sorry they had to leave so early.

My grandmother was the 2nd youngest of 9 sisters, so they weren't that young when they had her, but I don't know the exact age. Her dad killed himself when she was a young child, alcoholism and war trauma among other things, and her mom passed from some illness.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#366

Post by tuna74 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:41 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #29

> this source for example claims global life expectancy jumped from around 47 to 72 from 1950 to 2022 I believe this is because of reductions in child mortality more than increases in adult lifespan. So it doesn't affect the number of great grandmothers that much. Having kids older is definitely a big change for society and individual families, though. Every day as a parent I wish I was 15 years younger and my parent…

"Every day as a parent I wish I was 15 years younger and my parents were too."

All people over 30 with they were 15 years younger. Age, miles, diseases and injuries gradually makes the body worser.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#367

Post by carlosjobim » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:41 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #324

tuatoru wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (lack of) social prestige for pregnancy and motherhood among UMC women is a bigger factor. Women have been indoctrinated to place career first and only. Try saying "soccer mom" with an admiring tone instead of a sneer if you want to understand this.

Is it possible women could want financial independence without being indoctrinated? Or are they incapable of desiring power over their own lives, perhaps unlike men?

Of course a lot of people would like financial independence. Young working women (and men) of today normally have almost no financial independence, because they are indebted or renters. They have to work a salary job or be out on the streets.

A stay at home mother in the past with a part time job had much more financial independence together with her husband than most working young people have today, even though they get fancy titles now.

Basically the current elderly generation used indoctrination to turn their children into serfs in some kind of foolish attempt to end humanity.

Also to remember is that traditionally in most cultures, the wife in the family controlled the household's finances.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#368

Post by doubled112 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:42 PM UTC

ein0p wrote: post #230

jwells89 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a parent, but I feel the same about myself. Having a kid at 22 would’ve been a mess to say the least. Looking back at that age halfway through my 30s, at that point I wasn’t much more than an overgrown 16 year old that could legally walk into a bar who wouldn’t get his head screwed on quite right for another 6 years or so at minimum.

As someone who had his first kid at 23, you grow up real quick once you become a parent. Moreover I doubt it’s even possible for a person to fully mature if they don’t have kids. Or to really understand their own parents for that matter.

I was 24 and still in college. This thread is full of people saying "I was a mess" or "I wasn't mature enough".

When we found out we were pregnant, I was working at a gas station, my off hours spent riding around in a truck with my friends yelling things at people walking by on the street for reactions. There's maturity and stability.

Now I'm "ahead" of many of those friends because I knew I needed to hurry up and get things done. Didn't have time to rage quit jobs. Didn't have time to sit around and make less because it was easier.

So I agree with you. It tells me a lot about being responsible and mature. Most won't until they have to, and a kid has that effect.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#369

Post by arkey » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:48 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #240

sublinear wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part about being a mature parent is that you have much more control over how you raise your kids. No way in hell did I ever trust teachers, grandparents, coaches, etc. over my actual parents. My parents were in their 30s when I was born. Their skepticism not only decoupled them from depending on people they didn't trust, but their perspective rubbed off on me and set me up for success. Older parents have no…

[flagged]

> The notion that parents have much to do with how kids turn out is a myth.

This is honestly fascinating. It's obviously not true, just by taking into account the consequences of it being actually true.

Am I missing something? The study says, at some point "We would essentially be the same person if we had been adopted at birth and raised in a different family.".

Are they limiting this to the genetic composition of a person? It seems they refer to the character, behaviour, overall identity... which to me sounds unbelievably absurd.

I mean, being raised by a single mom vs. being raised by an Army dad MUST introduce some differences, right? And what about all the studies about the consequences of father absence? Oh, all criminals were going to be criminals regardless?

Come on.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#370

Post by Piskvorrr » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 12:50 PM UTC

bgroat wrote: post #215

Afton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

Everyone's life is completely different, and their choices are their own. It seems you made the right choice for yourself, and I hope your kids agree. I will say though, I think there's a chicken and egg element in this line of thinking. A part of my thinks that being childless in twenties provides space that facilitates being a basket-case. I think that having a child immediately makes most people at least 50% more…

To borrow terms from RFC 2119, "having a child makes people more responsible" is a SHOULD, but statistically, turns out to be a MAY. (#survivorBias: people are likely to acknowledge this, if they did turn out to actually be more responsible - "turned out GREAT for ME", emphasis added. The other case, not so much.)

However, I feel like the age of a parent is a factor, sure - but it's not an overwhelming factor...