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Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

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Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#161
post #142
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think, but as it turns out, inequality has strong negative effects to the point that even the rich in an inequal country do worse than the more poor in a more equal country. TED talk about it: http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

I haven't seen either talk, but I am really curious now about why TED would post Wilkinson's talk but not Hanauer's, if they both address the subject income inequality.

From reading the transcript of Hanauer's, Wilkinson's talk is just way better. He has A LOT of actual data, in fact the whole talk is data, data, data, on obesity, happiness, violence & homocide, lifespan, infant mortality, trust, teenage pregnancy, addiction, child wellbeing, mental illness, highschool dropout, social mobility; all on a country level and on a US state level. He also shows that inequality is the problem and that GNP per capita hardly matters ... while Hanauer's talk is 99% rhetoric. Even though the message is roughly the same, Wilkinson's talk definitely is a lot more objective rather than subjective political assertions, so it's a lot harder to argue that he's simply pushing a political agenda.

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#162
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, but then again the country is neither as libertarian as Koch would like or as progressive as Soros would like. And frankly, there are things that Koch and Soros probably agree on that aren't the status quo either, so how do you explain that? The fact is, there are as many viewpoints as there are billionaires, and that's what keeps them from forming a cabal. If you want to find someone who can form a caba…

Why do corn farmers have more homogenous viewpoints than billionaires?

Corn farmers all get their money in the same way. Billionaires? Not so much.

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#163
Shame on the news media for not asking meaningful questions to people who make claims on either side of the US political spectrum. I feel as though a culture of timidity to ask questions that lead to clarifying answers is turning into a culture that politicizes the truth.

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#164
post #70

I'm sorry but, higher taxes aren't going to solve anything. At the end of the day, our spending will just not stop. We are just adding fuel to the fire. We need to: • Invest in the future: We need to invent, produce, and export new renewable energy sources. We need to invest in robotic manufacturing because cheap people labor is not sustainable in any country - robotic is where it will go. • We need to heavily tax im…

Wait a minute: you say that our expenses versus income is too high, but then also say that higher taxes won't solve anything? Unless you're arguing that higher taxes won't increase government income (which is a totally specious argument that people make all the time, but which isn't backed up in the least by any actual historical analyses), then higher taxes absolutely could solve the deficit problem. Federal tax rev…

The point is, if the government manages its money poorly, it should make better decisions rather than taking on more money.

If I tell you, "Fred is always running out of money; in fact, he's deep in credit card debt," your immediate response is not going to be "He should get a raise so he can pay off that debt" or "Here, give this money to Fred."

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#165
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite simply, no. The goal of a country is not to amass wealth in the government.

Not all companies that operate are for profit. BUT, The goal of a country is to amass wealth, is it not?

No, not at all. If anything, the goal of a fiscally responsible country should be to break even. Match spending to revenue generation while providing the most optimal services to your citizens.

The problem lies in that determining optimal services is a no-win game as it differs greatly in most geographically areas and person-to-person.

Corporations are far more focused on a particular set of goals and have a far smaller audience to satisfy (shareholders) who all generally want more wealth.

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#166
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, a country is a business. No, it's not. It needs to manage its finances responsibly, but that is quite different from being a profit-generating business.

Countries are the largest companies that exist on the planet.

Being Singaporean and living in an environment which resembles a real corporate state, I can assure you, countries should not be administered like a company.

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#167
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do corn farmers have more homogenous viewpoints than billionaires?

Corn farmers all get their money in the same way. Billionaires? Not so much.

Corn farmers who grow corn for human consumption, feed and ethanol are all the same? Small family farmers are the same as giant agri-business farms? Corn farmers in Iowa are the same as corn farmers in New York?

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#168
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think that fictional stories that would be anecdotal if real should inform anyone of anything? Real economic issues require solid statistical analysis based upon proven economic models. Anything less is just a projection of emotional bias that means little to society and would never solve anything.

OMG. Have you also algorithmically quantified love too? And tell me what a "proven economic model" is. One where the rich have to hire working class cops in their off-hours -- depriving said cops' families of their presence -- so they can feel safe in common spaces? One in which private security and private prisons are the fastest growing employers? I've got news for you, pal, and you can shove this up your algorithm…

> OMG.

I'll leave that there to speak for itself.

> Have you also algorithmically quantified love too?

I can certainly see where an emotional person who doesn't know much about economics would try to turn this into an emotional issue. It's not. It's an economic issue. The whole reason why we step from one financial mess to the next is that we don't make political decisions based upon economic forces such as supply & demand. Political decisions are typically made to benefit the power of politicians. They do so by making emotional arguments to people who don't really understand much about economics but who know how to pull a voting lever. Congratulations, that means you.

> People are not machines and, as messy as you might find this fact to be, have emotional components.

And this has precisely what to do with the economic health of the country?

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#169

So, when does one prove causation? Because by any economic metric, the times when we've been fiscally strong is when the top marginal tax rate was higher than 36% currently. When they lowered it in 2001 from 40% while going to war , it created net zero jobs during the entirety of the Bush administration (and starting leaking jobs en masse during the crisis in 2008). One could argue that Reagan's administration saw so…

Aren't there two issues here * how much (usually as a % GDP) should / does a govt take? * how does that tax burden get shared out the first is an issue of services provided by govt, but thesecond is an issue of fairness. If you want more services you need to pay. As a % of GDP the USA takes about 26-28 % whereas pretty much every other Western country is between 35 and 45%. My take on that is welfare costs. Full heal…

> Full health and pension support for all the USA is going to be expensive, and will probably bring the US in line with Europe

btw, the US government already spends more per capita on health care than the Canadian government does, yet Canada has a (mostly) public health care system and the US has private system where even people with insurance can go bankrupt from medical costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_...

Re: Too Hot for TED: Income Inequality

#170
post #9

Another rich guy trying to persuade average folk that all our problems would be solved if people like him were taxed more. Never mind that the Buffet-rule (minimum 35%) would net $31 Billion over the next 11 years versus $7 Trillion in estimated deficits. ( http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74232.html ) Another reason this idea is so wrong-headed is that there can never be enough superrich Americans to power…

> But you can invest... Your money isn't stuffed under your mattress, is it??

But much of that investment heads out of the US to foreign companies or foreign expansion of US companies.

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