The window for great-grandmothers is closing • Hacker News Board

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#301

Post by dotnet00 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:32 AM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #205

angarg12 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wording here is a bit odd, almost like blaming people for delaying childbearing. The world is complicated and a number of factors have produced this outcome in the developed world. My parents were factory workers and they encouraged me to study a university degree as a sure way to a successful career. I finished my degree well into my 20s, but then the economic collapse of 2008 happened and I spent several years…

> But it doesn't discount the fact that it's easier to start a family for someone with a stable job with a support network. It is easier, but people have been having kids in all sorts of various situations for, well, as long as the human race has been around. Kids are way more resilient than we think.

The kids will stay alive, but they would certainly prefer stability, and their parents would've just as much loved to give their children a better life. For most of human history the parents didn't really have much control over improving their circumstances, nor did they have effective means of birth control, so they just had kids whenever. I don't think it's reasonable to just put that aside as "kids are way more resilient".

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#302

Post by rpcope1 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

shiroiushi wrote: post #282

Afton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

>The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. ... Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate,... This is exactly why I don't think anyone should have children until they're at least 50 years old, and better yet 75-100. We just need to solve this "aging" disease problem first. 20-somethi…

Is this sarcasm or a joke? I honestly can't tell, but I hope it is.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#303

Post by dotnet00 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:43 AM UTC

zachmu wrote: post #163

crote wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a matter of giving your kid a new laptop every year vs. every couple of years, or not being able to pay for college out-of-pocket. There are plenty of people out there who can't afford to live in anything larger than a one-bedroom apartment, who can't afford to clothe their children, or who can't even afford to feed them. Telling them to have kids because they are "resilient" and parenthood is "meaningf…

To accept this view is to accept the idea that most of our ancestors had "childhood poverty trauma". I just don't see how it's a useful frame. And really, it's not the actual poor who are delaying having kids into their mid-30s: it's the college educated who make way, way more money than them!

>To accept this view is to accept the idea that most of our ancestors had "childhood poverty trauma". I just don't see how it's a useful frame.

For most of the human population, this has genuinely been the case. Most of South/East Asian and African adults are barely 1-2 generations of separation from living in poverty. Most of them are very familiar with the struggle of giving kids a good life in much worse poverty than that experienced in much of the West, and would very much rather their grandkids not go through the same thing.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#304

Post by 082349872349872 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:47 AM UTC

Unfrozen0688 wrote: post #156

Merad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just great grandparents, but the family calculus on grandparents changes significantly as well. If my parents were 35 when I was born, and I don't have children until 35, my parents are 70. With a life expectancy of 80, my children never really get a chance to know my parents. Whereas if each generation is having children at age 25, my children will likely be able to know their grandparents for 30 years. I h…

Its bad. Ofc course its bad to have a smaller support network.

Support networks are not necessarily limited to blood relatives.

(in particular, I was never within 5 hours of gp or ggp until my teens, and born multiple TZ away. then again, I'm in the "come home before it gets dark" generation; ymmv)

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#305

Post by pooper » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:47 AM UTC

Thorrez wrote: post #283

pooper wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just didn't know any better. The whole idea that everyone has to have children is frankly asinine. I want people to have fewer children. I want fewer people to have children. I want nobody to have more than two children. The whole idea that population must grow and keep growing is silly. It is ok for the population to shrink a little.

The way the trend is going, the population is going to shrink. South Korea is already down to 0.84 (2.1 means population stays the same).

That is good and I'm all for it but a problem is now is that fundamentalists still have a lot of children and at some point, they will have too much political power.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#306

Post by sroussey » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:48 AM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

Oh, don’t kid yourself. There are areas of the country where knowing a great grandmother is common, and even great great grandmother.

If you have kids at 15, it tends to be generational.

Same way as having kids in your 30s+ is generational.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#307

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:49 AM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #273

dgacmu wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had our first kid when I was about 37, and our second when I was about 43. The part that's harder is that particularly with #2, I'm just a bit more tired, and he needs a lot of energy. It's not drastic, but I notice it. The part that's emotionally harder is that I'm sad I won't be there when my kids are approximately my age. I'd love to be around longer to help if they have kids, etc., but statistically, I don't t…

This is exactly why I decided not to have kids. My mum had me at 40. I lost my dad when I was 23 and my mum at 44. I'm 47 now and it's frankly too late for me (I'm male, so theoretically I could father some) to have children now.

[deleted]

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#308

Post by teaearlgraycold » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:49 AM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #273

dgacmu wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had our first kid when I was about 37, and our second when I was about 43. The part that's harder is that particularly with #2, I'm just a bit more tired, and he needs a lot of energy. It's not drastic, but I notice it. The part that's emotionally harder is that I'm sad I won't be there when my kids are approximately my age. I'd love to be around longer to help if they have kids, etc., but statistically, I don't t…

This is exactly why I decided not to have kids. My mum had me at 40. I lost my dad when I was 23 and my mum at 44. I'm 47 now and it's frankly too late for me (I'm male, so theoretically I could father some) to have children now.

I’m sure you’re still a cool uncle and good influence to the youngins.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#309

Post by dotnet00 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:51 AM UTC

zachmu wrote: post #144

decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

This sentiment that it's nearly impossible to convey the meaning it provides is always irritating to hear. It's an extremely condescending idea to have, when the meaning it gives people is pretty obvious to see in siblings and friends/coworkers who do have children. But that's just more reason to want to wait until you feel ready to take on the job.

I've seen how my sibling changed upon starting a family, I've seen how my PhD advisor proudly talks about every little thing his kids do.

The value it gives them is obvious, but that's just more reason not to irresponsibly pop put a baby when I barely make enough to support myself, when I don't know if I'll stay in the country I'm in, when I've had very little time being mature enough to know if my partner is someone with whom I can expect to provide a good environment for at least 18 years.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#310

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #119

CalRobert wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation can be far more nuanced than this. It's not the people, it's the cars, cows, planes, land, and fuel they consume.

For most of those things, people produce as much as they consume. So more people doesn't make things worse. Fossil fuels are a bit of an exception, but the transition to non fossil fuels is in full swing, and will be complete long before the oil runs out. Land is a better argument, though multi story buildings is a partial answer. Either way, we are very far from running out of land.

Land for housing isn't the concern, land for livestock the person eats is.