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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

memoirsandrambles.substack.com

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#271

Post by tuatoru »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #260
em-bee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. when our first was born we moved to live a few km from the grandparents, and ther…

> in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. Same for Indians. And 90% of Indian dramas are about mother in laws butting heads with daughter in laws. Obviously, a daughter in law that earns sufficient money herself is not going to give up her agency, and many in laws who are expecting the deference they had to give…

But only 20% of Indian women are in the workforce, due to culture--family honor concerns.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#272

Post by [deleted] »

pimlottc wrote: post #95

For pete sake, don't break up the flow and over-complicate your very first sentence with irrelevant asides like this: > A friend and I were talking about our families today when I realized that my grandmother (this grandmother) became a grandma (not my grandma) at 45. I got confused and distracted trying to solve the riddle of why his "grandmother" was not his "grandma" [0] when it had nothing to do with the point he…

[deleted]

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#273

Post by ulfw »

dgacmu wrote: post #256
serf wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can distinctly remember it hitting me like a bus that I was now wholly responsible for a human. the problem of course being that some individuals never hit upon that realization -- and the statistics regarding the matter make it look like that revelation is more likely to come to an individual who is older, financially secure, and mentally well. > It’s harder when you are older, but I’m financially better off so t…

We had our first kid when I was about 37, and our second when I was about 43. The part that's harder is that particularly with #2, I'm just a bit more tired, and he needs a lot of energy. It's not drastic, but I notice it. The part that's emotionally harder is that I'm sad I won't be there when my kids are approximately my age. I'd love to be around longer to help if they have kids, etc., but statistically, I don't t…

This is exactly why I decided not to have kids. My mum had me at 40. I lost my dad when I was 23 and my mum at 44. I'm 47 now and it's frankly too late for me (I'm male, so theoretically I could father some) to have children now.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#274

Post by rfrey »

sublinear wrote: post #220
rfrey wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like a parody of American individualism that a Chinese government newspaper might write. The ultimate goal of my parenting is for my kids to realize they're part of a community that gave them tremendous advantages, and to which they have a duty to give back.

Not sure what bubble you're describing, but the sense of community anywhere at any time in human history is ultimately an illusion. I'm not saying the kids should grow up to be selfish, but that the more they can do for themselves the more they can also do for others. That is a leader. We really don't need another generation of guilt ridden cogs.

It's "rugged individualism" that is the bubble, both in time and in space. Community and duty exist everywhere and have at every time, despite what it is like in 2024 America.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#275

Post by tuatoru »

jwells89 wrote: post #123
pixl97 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a potential problem (depending on ones point of view) is that when parents wait till they are responsible they tend to have one, maybe two kids, which is below replacement rate. When coupled with things like costs, you end up with a rapidly shrinking population.

Cost and support networks are both big factors here. 30-somethings are probably more likely to have replacement rate or more if it’s affordable to do so and there’s family/friends around to lend a hand, but few enjoy such circumstances. Things like remote work could’ve helped here, allowing couples to live near family instead of wherever the best employment prospects exist currently, but the RTO push prevented that.

The (lack of) social prestige for pregnancy and motherhood among UMC women is a bigger factor. Women have been indoctrinated to place career first and only.

Try saying "soccer mom" with an admiring tone instead of a sneer if you want to understand this.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#276

Post by lotsofpulp »

tuatoru wrote: post #271
lotsofpulp wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. Same for Indians. And 90% of Indian dramas are about mother in laws butting heads with daughter in laws. Obviously, a daughter in law that earns sufficient money herself is not going to give up her agency, and many in laws who are expecting the deference they had to give…

But only 20% of Indian women are in the workforce, due to culture--family honor concerns.

It is due to those Indian women not having the opportunity to earn money. If you look at American women who are children of Indian immigrants, the rate is much higher, because women have a far easier time obtaining higher income jobs in the US (or UK/Aus/Can/other developed countries).

But that is rapidly changing amongst the upper classes in India too, almost everyone will support their daughter to get as good of an education as they can and secure as good income earning opportunities as they can.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#277

Post by gr8_commission »

When I was about 16 years old it became my life dream to get married young and to have kids young. My inspiring thought was that I could be a young grandparent and that my kids would be able to know their parents for a long time as well as their grandparents and great grandparents. I did get married at 19 and had my first son at 20. 3 years later I had my daughter. 5 months into my daughters life, the kids mother left us and I was stranded alone as a single father of 2 at age 23. That was 4 years ago and it was the most difficult time of my life. I moved back in with my parents and my then recently "empty cage" mother had to become a "mum" again while I slowly got back on my feet. I've been remarried for about a year now and everything is going very well. My daughter is about to turn 4 and my son turns 7 this year. I love thinking about how when I'm 30 my son will be 10 and when I'm 40 he'll be 20 etc.

Before the divorce, I was very adamant on promoting young marriage/childbearing to others. In a perfect world I still think it's a good idea... but I am a lot more open minded and less critical. Life is so unique and never goes according to plan. I wouldn't recommend my exact life to anyone as it has its own unique and undesirable difficulties. When my own children grow up, I will strongly recommend against rushing anything with anyone until they're absolutely sure and have a good plan in place.

My kids know and love their grandparents. They know their great grandparents. I am prepared physically and mentally for 2 more kids (yes I know, but I think I know better than I did at 19), but I cannot imagine doing the whole baby thing in my mid 30s or early 40s... I think my current age is a good time to just get it all out of the way. I like to think of it as delayed gratification and that having adult children at a relatively young age is a huge blessing. Let's see how it goes.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#278

Post by brailsafe »

bluGill wrote: post #184
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why that and not other contraceptives?

Because it is used. Others are easy to forget or use wrong. Many are enough worse from a pleasure standpoint that I rather obstain then use them. (of course I'm married so I have an easy outlet without worrying about stds)

The pill is also easy to misuse, I think it just has a higher tolerance for misuse in terms of continued effectiveness, but it does change if you're inconsistent

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#279

Post by tuatoru »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #276
tuatoru wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But only 20% of Indian women are in the workforce, due to culture--family honor concerns.

It is due to those Indian women not having the opportunity to earn money. If you look at American women who are children of Indian immigrants, the rate is much higher, because women have a far easier time obtaining higher income jobs in the US (or UK/Aus/Can/other developed countries). But that is rapidly changing amongst the upper classes in India too, almost everyone will support their daughter to get as good of an…

Children of immigrants rapidly absorb the core culture of their new country. Especially when in grants them greater independence.

The upper classes in India are a rounding error, maybe the population of Spain at most.

Edit: you are right that it's a trade-off. In Bangladesh keeping women at home may mean starvation, so they are grudgingly allowed to work.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#280

Post by tropdrop »

smoyer wrote: post #232

I attended my great-great-grandmother's 100th birthday party when I was 8 or 9.

Came here to say something similar: I didn't realize how rare this was until this thread, but as I kid I knew not only four of my great-grandparents, but even a great-great-grandmother. She died at 96 years old, but I was old enough to hang out with her a few times, and remember her.

My great-grandfather is still alive and turned 100 last year. Since I'm already much older than any of my progenitors when they had their children, even if I live to his age it is unlikely I'll get to spend time with my own great-great-grandchildren.

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