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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#201

Post by sublinear »

CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

Isn't the ultimate goal of parenting that your kids shouldn't have to trust anyone but themselves?

Parents who don't have a plan and need help shouldn't have had kids. The grandparents and great grandparents would just get in the way of these goals. There shouldn't be anything magical about getting to know your family. If you got to meet them, great, but you're your own person and developing that is so much more important.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#202

Post by RayVR »

sublinear wrote: post #201
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

Isn't the ultimate goal of parenting that your kids shouldn't have to trust anyone but themselves? Parents who don't have a plan and need help shouldn't have had kids. The grandparents and great grandparents would just get in the way of these goals. There shouldn't be anything magical about getting to know your family. If you got to meet them, great, but you're your own person and developing that is so much more impo…

Is this a joke?

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#203

Post by bradlys »

zachmu wrote: post #163
crote wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a matter of giving your kid a new laptop every year vs. every couple of years, or not being able to pay for college out-of-pocket. There are plenty of people out there who can't afford to live in anything larger than a one-bedroom apartment, who can't afford to clothe their children, or who can't even afford to feed them. Telling them to have kids because they are "resilient" and parenthood is "meaningf…

To accept this view is to accept the idea that most of our ancestors had "childhood poverty trauma". I just don't see how it's a useful frame. And really, it's not the actual poor who are delaying having kids into their mid-30s: it's the college educated who make way, way more money than them!

The college educated also live in very expensive cities. What they make in gains of income gets subtracted by landlords.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#204

Post by rfrey »

sublinear wrote: post #201
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

Isn't the ultimate goal of parenting that your kids shouldn't have to trust anyone but themselves? Parents who don't have a plan and need help shouldn't have had kids. The grandparents and great grandparents would just get in the way of these goals. There shouldn't be anything magical about getting to know your family. If you got to meet them, great, but you're your own person and developing that is so much more impo…

This reads like a parody of American individualism that a Chinese government newspaper might write.

The ultimate goal of my parenting is for my kids to realize they're part of a community that gave them tremendous advantages, and to which they have a duty to give back.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#205

Post by bombcar »

angarg12 wrote: post #107
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

The wording here is a bit odd, almost like blaming people for delaying childbearing. The world is complicated and a number of factors have produced this outcome in the developed world. My parents were factory workers and they encouraged me to study a university degree as a sure way to a successful career. I finished my degree well into my 20s, but then the economic collapse of 2008 happened and I spent several years…

> But it doesn't discount the fact that it's easier to start a family for someone with a stable job with a support network.

It is easier, but people have been having kids in all sorts of various situations for, well, as long as the human race has been around.

Kids are way more resilient than we think.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#206

Post by lukan »

throwway120385 wrote: post #194
lukan wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless person how meaningful parenthood will be to their life." It is also hard to convey, how hard it can be, making the transition from only taking care of yourself, to also being 100% responsible for someone else. Combine that with little sleep and relationships that were not working very good before and it is no wonder so many children end up in foster…

In other words there's no "best" or "perfect" time to have a child. There is only when you feel personally ready. So maybe the conversation can turn from "everyone should have babies when they're in their 20's! It's awesome!" to "why do so many people today feel like they have to wait until they're 30 to have a baby?" I think that would be a more constructive conversation than the one people in my cohort of people wi…

"In other words there's no "best" or "perfect" time to have a child. There is only when you feel personally ready"

Yup. And it takes 2 to feel ready and to be sure, to do it together. At least for some time, even though a divorce is not the end of the world, if done right (very rare), but it can be for the children, if it means war between the parents and using the children as a weapon to hurt the other side. That is way too common.

So yes, having kids can be awesome and meaningful. But it is a very serious commitment, maybe the most serious there is, where my advice would be, don't do it, if you don't feel ready.

(I felt ready, but it was and still is very very tough at times)

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#207

Post by nyokodo »

munificent wrote: post #113
Afton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

It's complicated. It's definitely true that we're less mature in our 20s than we are in our 30s. But, also, maturity doesn't just accumulate on us like growth rings. You can easily be a completely immature thirty-something if you don't have the kind of challenging life experiences that cause maturity. Probably the number one life experience that increases maturity is having kids . If you'd had kids younger, you would…

> no one should deliberately have children as a tool for their own person growth

I’m not suggesting you’re saying this, but there seems to be an idea floating around that any motivation to have children that incorporates your own good is evil. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anticipating and desiring an ancillary benefit to having children or from any other relationship for that matter. Yes, if it’s your primary goal then that is cold and inhuman since children have a right to exist and be loved and cared for for their own sake, and they and other people do not exist merely to sate your desires. However, the fact that they also sate one’s good and ordered needs and desires and that those are part of the equation of forming relationships and having children is perfectly natural and an unavoidable human experience across cultures and times.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#208

Post by deergomoo »

zachmu wrote: post #144
decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

> The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless person how meaningful parenthood will be to their life

I 100% believe you, but at the same time there are a lot of us out there that don't feel like we're missing anything of that sort from our lives.

On the contrary, if I was to have children, I would have to put a whole lot of faith in my biological wiring for parental love and fulfilment overcoming the stresses, worries, and relationship strains any parent will tell you is the norm.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#209

Post by crimsontech »

Afton wrote: post #90
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

I had my first daughter when I was 20 and grew up very quickly, I can distinctly remember it hitting me like a bus that I was now wholly responsible for a human.

She is an adult now and I couldn’t be any prouder of all she has achieved in life so far.

I also had two more kids in my 30s. It’s harder when you are older, but I’m financially better off so they can have things I couldn’t afford in my 20s. I do have more work responsibilities but it’s balanced by working from home so I get to be a big part of their lives, taking them to school, here when they get home, etc.

There are benefits either way, but I think if you are committed to being a decent parent, having them younger has more benefits in the long term. You get to be around for more of lives too.

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