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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#151

Post by DiggyJohnson »

082349872349872 wrote: post #94
titzer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family has really long generations. Going back 7 generations for me patrilinearly is exactly 280 years; 40 years per generation. When I was young my grandparents were already in their 80s and both grandfathers gone before I was 14. Sadly, both had mental decline (stroke, Alzheimers) and I never knew them in their right mind. They'd be in their 110s today. The idea of knowing my great-grandparents, who would be in…

In the line I've been able (most just showed up in the New World from somewhere or other...) to trace back to 7 generations, it was a little less, but they were in the colonies before the US was a thing, so more than 35, less than 40 years per generation? My wife can go back 7 as well, and her family has also tended towards high parental investment in offspring; next time I'm in the cellar I'll have to check but I'd…

I do get frustrated when I hear people saying negative or unfounded things about couples with relatively small age gaps 7-15 years. It’s the norm, not the exception.

And I say that as someone who has only dated people my own age.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#152

Post by decafninja »

zachmu wrote: post #144
decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

Of course you can raise kids just fine without being wealthy.

But… you can give them an even better quality of life if you have wealth.

Yes I’m aware that spoiled rich brats are a thing.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#153

Post by zachmu »

silverquiet wrote: post #147
zachmu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

And yet... > The recent proliferation of studies examining cross-national variation in the association between parenthood and happiness reveal accumulating evidence of lower levels of happiness among parents than nonparents in most advanced industrialized societies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222535/ I'm sure it is meaningful, but not everyone is willing or able to take on the stress of raising chi…

IMHO opinion you have to take happiness surveys like this with a grain of salt. For one thing, there is no such thing as a happiness ruler, this is all based on survey responses and subjective ideas of what it means to be happy. The effect sizes are small and inconsistent. The same surveys frequently show industrial countries significantly less happy than developing countries, and yet few people would choose to live like a Guatemalan instead of a Canadian.

And despite what they may say to surveys like this, it's pretty difficult to find parents who are willing to admit they wish they hadn't had kids. Most consider their family the most important aspect of their lives.

More importantly, "happiness" is a poor metric to optimize one's life around, and hardly anyone does. Most people search for purpose and meaning, which children supply in spades.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#156

Post by Unfrozen0688 »

Merad wrote: post #38
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

It's not just great grandparents, but the family calculus on grandparents changes significantly as well. If my parents were 35 when I was born, and I don't have children until 35, my parents are 70. With a life expectancy of 80, my children never really get a chance to know my parents. Whereas if each generation is having children at age 25, my children will likely be able to know their grandparents for 30 years. I h…

Its bad. Ofc course its bad to have a smaller support network.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#157

Post by deadbabe »

We need more good examples of what “old parents” look like in modern society. Having a first child in your 40s is often painted as a pessimistic, undesirable situation to be in, where you will “lack energy” and patience to take care of a small child.

But why? If we’re serious about extending lifespans the average age of parents should be going up. People should be using their younger years to establish themselves in society and build a sustainable lifestyle. By the time you are 40, the costs and demands of a small child should be effortless, easily solved with the riches you’ve accumulated. By the time you hit 60s, your child is graduating college and getting on with life. If you’re lucky maybe you live to 90 and even see them reach well into middle age. This doesn’t sound like a bad timeline.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#158

Post by aidenn0 »

rodgerd wrote: post #150
em-bee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. when our first was born we moved to live a few km from the grandparents, and ther…

> the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. That's great if the grandparents are good people. Not so much if they aren't.

This retort is true of literally everything involved in raising kids.

Substitute "parents" "preschool teachers" "sports coach" &c. for "grandparents" in the sentence and it's still true for the domain for the children. It's true that with grandparents you have a maximum of 4 to choose from, but you might not have more than 4 preschools to choose from either.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#159

Post by ironmanszombie »

enobrev wrote: post #116
pimlottc wrote: post #95

For pete sake, don't break up the flow and over-complicate your very first sentence with irrelevant asides like this: > A friend and I were talking about our families today when I realized that my grandmother (this grandmother) became a grandma (not my grandma) at 45. I got confused and distracted trying to solve the riddle of why his "grandmother" was not his "grandma" [0] when it had nothing to do with the point he…

I no longer read anything in parentheses for this exact reason. It seems people tend to write their "live-edits" and "related thoughts" in parentheses rather than spending a moment to figure out what they want to say and writing it clearly. I've found skipping anything within parentheses tends to improve my understanding while reading.

Really? You don't read anything in parentheses? I think that would be harder to do (I'm joking, don't take it seriously) than actually reading the parenthetical information.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#160

Post by crote »

zachmu wrote: post #144
decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

It's not just a matter of giving your kid a new laptop every year vs. every couple of years, or not being able to pay for college out-of-pocket.

There are plenty of people out there who can't afford to live in anything larger than a one-bedroom apartment, who can't afford to clothe their children, or who can't even afford to feed them. Telling them to have kids because they are "resilient" and parenthood is "meaningful" isn't very helpful - it's far better to wait a few years until they're financially stable. A parent's love can't fully compensate for childhood poverty trauma.

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