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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

memoirsandrambles.substack.com

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#141

Post by gonzo41 »

pixl97 wrote: post #121
jwells89 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a parent, but I feel the same about myself. Having a kid at 22 would’ve been a mess to say the least. Looking back at that age halfway through my 30s, at that point I wasn’t much more than an overgrown 16 year old that could legally walk into a bar who wouldn’t get his head screwed on quite right for another 6 years or so at minimum.

I think a potential problem (depending on ones point of view) is that when parents wait till they are responsible they tend to have one, maybe two kids, which is below replacement rate. When coupled with things like costs, you end up with a rapidly shrinking population.

Don't worry, there's plenty of irresponsible people out there still. And the planet is thankful for a bit of steady decline in population.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#142

Post by decafninja »

zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready.

Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#143

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

jwells89 wrote: post #103
Afton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upside is that I was a total basket case in my 20s, completely incompetent to be able to raise a child. I'll leave it to my children on how it turned out in my 30s. Generally I'd expect older adults to have done a lot more maturing and increased ability to emotionally regulate, which is a really critical ability when dealing with the 4th day of 3 hours of sleep and a colicky baby (for example). Also no point. But…

Not a parent, but I feel the same about myself. Having a kid at 22 would’ve been a mess to say the least. Looking back at that age halfway through my 30s, at that point I wasn’t much more than an overgrown 16 year old that could legally walk into a bar who wouldn’t get his head screwed on quite right for another 6 years or so at minimum.

Yeah, same here. I don't think I was mature enough to have a kid at 22, apart from the fact that I was still studying, and when I started working I had low salary and needed to work long hours to fight for job stability in a competitive sector. However, it would likely have worked at 30, and reading through all this makes me think that it would have been better than waiting until 36 as I did.

Easier said (especially in retrospective) than done, though.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#144

Post by zachmu »

decafninja wrote: post #142
zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier.

The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless person how meaningful parenthood will be to their life. It's something you have to experience firsthand to understand. That's why social norms and defaults are so important here.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#145

Post by ghghgfdfgh »

jrussino wrote: post #100
MenhirMike wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Tyler was born on March 29, 1790 and served as the 10th President of the USA from 1841-1845. His Grandson, Harrison Ruffin Tyler (Born November 9, 1928), is still alive today.

According to Wikipedia, John died in 1862 and Harrison was born in 1928. So he never met his grandfather. It makes me wonder - who is the oldest "directly-known" person? Maybe there's a better term for this. What I mean is, of all of the currently-living people, who is the person that one of them actually met who was born the earliest?

If you think about it, there are about a couple of hundred super-centenarians (110 or older) alive[1]. Surely at least one of them met a very old relative when they were young - for example, when I was 9, I met a great uncle who was 100 years old. Taking into account life expectancy, if you assume at least one of them has met someone 85 years older than them, that means this oldest "directly known person" would have been born at least 195 years ago (1829). Which means there’s a good chance someone alive has met someone born in the 1820’s.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercentenarian#Incidence

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#146

Post by poszlem »

zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

Reading this reminded me of the feeling I had when I first understood what it means for spacetime to be four-dimensional and how an object that appears stationary is actually moving at the speed of light, but in the direction of time.

So, in reality, nothing’s ever just sitting still, everything’s always moving at speed c. You can't just "stop". We just have to choose how we’re moving that speed around—through the x, y, z, or t direction.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#147

Post by silverquiet »

zachmu wrote: post #144
decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

And yet...

> The recent proliferation of studies examining cross-national variation in the association between parenthood and happiness reveal accumulating evidence of lower levels of happiness among parents than nonparents in most advanced industrialized societies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222535/

I'm sure it is meaningful, but not everyone is willing or able to take on the stress of raising children. Seemingly less and less are as fertility declines across developed (and even developing) world. And you can say they don't need much, but without rigorous education, their future looks pretty grim to me. Won't you encourage your kids to attend the best college they can?

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#148

Post by giantg2 »

CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

Except grandparents in their 40s are still working, so not a great choice for childcare.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#149

Post by DiggyJohnson »

gonzo41 wrote: post #141
pixl97 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a potential problem (depending on ones point of view) is that when parents wait till they are responsible they tend to have one, maybe two kids, which is below replacement rate. When coupled with things like costs, you end up with a rapidly shrinking population.

Don't worry, there's plenty of irresponsible people out there still. And the planet is thankful for a bit of steady decline in population.

The planet doesn’t care either way. The question is what’s best for the humans - and those things or beings that humans value.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#150

Post by rodgerd »

em-bee wrote: post #125
jwells89 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a parent, but I feel the same about myself. Having a kid at 22 would’ve been a mess to say the least. Looking back at that age halfway through my 30s, at that point I wasn’t much more than an overgrown 16 year old that could legally walk into a bar who wouldn’t get his head screwed on quite right for another 6 years or so at minimum.

the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. when our first was born we moved to live a few km from the grandparents, and ther…

> the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help.

That's great if the grandparents are good people. Not so much if they aren't.

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