> Help resources become inefficient - because so much material is restricted, and so much time is spent on delivering live lectures, there’d often be 40 students competing for help from 2 TAs in a 2-hour Office Hours I had the exact opposite problem when I was both a TA and later a professor. I would beg and plead for my students to come to office hours. "It's free one on one tutoring from the guy who writes the test…
Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
111–120 of 209 posts
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have the opposite experience, it’s been a fantastic resource. Were you using 3.5 or 4.0? Do you have an example of of the type of question that performs poorly?
"Under what conditions does the sun appear blue?" (correct answer, on Mars) If you want to tilt the conversation towards a string of wrong answers, start off with "What color is the sun?" "Are you sure?" "I saw the sun and it was blue." "Under what conditions does the sun appear blue?" "Does the sun appear blue on Mars?" This had ChatGPT basically telling me that the sun was yellow 100%. Of course it's wrong, on Mars…
Comparing a 175 Billion parameter model with a ~2 Trillion parameter model. The difference is real. GPT 3.5 is obsolete, not state of the art.
> its answers will be patterned as excellent English variations of the common knowledge it was trained with
That's not how deep learning works.
https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hinton/absps/AIJmapping.pdf
"This 1990 paper demonstrated how neural networks could learn to represent and reason about part-whole hierarchical relationships, using family trees as the example domain.
By training on examples of family relations like parent-child and grandparent-grandchild, the neural network was able to capture the underlying logical patterns and reason about new family tree instances not seen during training.
This seminal work highlighted that neural networks can go beyond just memorizing training examples, and instead learn abstract representations that enable reasoning and generalization"
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have the opposite experience, it’s been a fantastic resource. Were you using 3.5 or 4.0? Do you have an example of of the type of question that performs poorly?
"Under what conditions does the sun appear blue?" (correct answer, on Mars) If you want to tilt the conversation towards a string of wrong answers, start off with "What color is the sun?" "Are you sure?" "I saw the sun and it was blue." "Under what conditions does the sun appear blue?" "Does the sun appear blue on Mars?" This had ChatGPT basically telling me that the sun was yellow 100%. Of course it's wrong, on Mars…
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#114> Help resources become inefficient - because so much material is restricted, and so much time is spent on delivering live lectures, there’d often be 40 students competing for help from 2 TAs in a 2-hour Office Hours I had the exact opposite problem when I was both a TA and later a professor. I would beg and plead for my students to come to office hours. "It's free one on one tutoring from the guy who writes the test…
I'm in 3rd year CS and I almost never go to office hours for my CS courses, because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. I go to lecture, don't understand the material, and then review my notes & the slides at home, working through the examples until I understand them. If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't un…
Good! This is what you should be doing! Understanding comes from within, and teachers can only guide you to it. You are your own best teacher, and you will learn the material on a deeper level if you figure it out yourself. Sometimes you do need a little guidance, though, and that's ok.
> Typically what I lack is is a more general understanding of the entire proof/example/algorithm instead of small individual details, and I really need to sit down with it and go through it instead of another quick re-explanation by a TA where I have to say "yeah, makes sense" before I've had enough time to think about it.
First of all, get face time with the actual professor if you can, not the TA. TAs can be great, but they're likely someone with limited pedagogical experience.
Second, you need to learn to ask questions to get to the heart of the matter. Don't walk in saying, "I don't understand this proof/example/algorithm". That gives them nothing to work with. All they can offer you in return is a quick explanation. Tell them what you just told us. "I feel like I've got a good handle on all the small details and steps in this proof/example/algorithm, but I'm having trouble understanding it as a whole." Maybe try, "can I see some more examples?" or "can I see a motivating example?" or even "what historical context led to the creation of this algorithm?"
Context can be everything. It can be difficult to understand material when it's presented to you in its modern form, and you don't see how something so logical and perfect crystalized out of the aether. If you can see a couple of steps in its historical derivation it can make a lot more sense.
Not saying this is the case for you, but I have also seen a lot of students who think they have a good handle on the small details, but it turns out they only understand gist of the details instead of the details of the details. Hell, I do that myself. If you go through every little detail and ask yourself "why?" or "where did that come from?" or "what could have motivated this?" you might discover you have more gaps in your knowledge than you realize.
Best of luck with the rest of your program! Don't be too hard on your teachers. As I explained in another comment, I spent years really trying to improve as a teacher, but it is an extremely unrewarding experience for a variety of reasons. These people are not getting rewarded for any extra effort they put into helping students, and if they're doing it anyway they deserve kudos.
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#115But I wanted to comment on some bitterness in your post:
> the school went the extra mile to ensure I don’t have the resources to learn on my own,
The things you list are department or even course-specific. For example when I did thermo (forget the course number) they had not just lecture/tutorial/office hours but handouts about things people found hard to understand ("mud" as in "clear as").
Also study groups are life saving. Would not have passed Unified without it.
> It turns out that universities succeed by being prestigious, not by teaching well.
I can't speak for other institutions, but don't think of MIT as a school (total spending on education is only ~15% of revenue and run at a slight loss). MIT is a huge government (and industry) research lab with a small school bolted on the side. Most of the staff is research staff; most of the faculty seem to resent teaching, and undergrads in general unless they can contribute to research (this somewhat overstatement ignores some faculty who love teaching and students -- but they are a minority).
You can get a fantastic education at MIT (I sure did, as did some friends) and you can get a terrible one (I have many friends who say that's what they got). The difference has nothing to do with brains or aptitude, it's just if you happen to accidentally get into the "groove". From visiting friends at other schools and looking and my kid's education I can say MIT's experience is really different, and not necessarily better.
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#116> Help resources become inefficient - because so much material is restricted, and so much time is spent on delivering live lectures, there’d often be 40 students competing for help from 2 TAs in a 2-hour Office Hours I had the exact opposite problem when I was both a TA and later a professor. I would beg and plead for my students to come to office hours. "It's free one on one tutoring from the guy who writes the test…
I'm in 3rd year CS and I almost never go to office hours for my CS courses, because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. I go to lecture, don't understand the material, and then review my notes & the slides at home, working through the examples until I understand them. If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't un…
Once inside the process of finding a solution things tended to fall into place. But looking at a problem set and not being able to guess what the first step is, thats a sign that I have not developed a means to find my bearing or orientation in the overall problem space.
what distinguishes the forgettable instructors that I have had, from the invaluable and irreplaceable ones? The ability to communicate why we are doing what we are doing as effectively if not more so, than how we go about doing it.
This is the gift that someone like grant Sanderson has, so incredibly rare and strangely opaque to (or even dismissed by) the typical college level instructor of STEM material.
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#117As someone that's gone to mid schools and has lots of friends that went to top schools, I was surprised to find that I think I got more education out of my experience. BUT they certainly got far more opportunities (internships, RSUs, ability to publish, networking, etc). I could sit down and solve a problem faster than them but they had more hands on experience and had several internships and research opportunities I envied. It was kinda odd but made sense.
But it took me far too long to realize something rather obvious. Education quality __should__ saturate and likely have a bias towards the mid schools being slightly better at teaching. The reasons? Well, this is conjecture, but I'd like to hear other's thoughts.
Now I still think in general the top schools are probably better. But I think the difference is much flatter than many assume.
- There's just far more graduates per year than academic positions. Even at the Community College I started at I had a Harvard educated math professor. At my Uni (I did physics), we had a Harvard, a few MIT, a few Berkeley and others. I guess it should make sense that it should trickle down if the market is saturated. Differentiating candidates can be a messy business sometimes and can come down to nuance if all of them are top level. MIT alone graduates about 50 PhDs in physics a year and across the US there's 200 tenure track positions. Berkeley does about the same, and so 2 schools could fill half of all positions (without getting into specialty and all the nuance like living location and spouses. We're guesstimating here).
- Possible bias towards mid schools can happen when top schools are highly focusing on research. At a R1 university, professors are more judged by their research than their teaching skills, so it becomes a secondary priority. They care more about their grad students, research grants, etc. So you get graduate students teaching (which can be very hit or miss) or often checked out professors. Of course, there are also lecturer positions and those can make this fuzzier. And we all know stellar people like Gilbert Strang. Basically if you want to do the best research you're going to aim at the top schools with the top funding who will enable you to do the most. But if you're more theoretical or care more about teaching or where you live, you won't prioritize that as much.
- Does metric hacking or metric pursuit play a role too? Academics is very cut throat and competitive. There is a big publish or perish paradigm and a major focus on work being novel. You can probably imagine it can be difficult to publish work that is highly novel and successful while doing it quickly and continually. We've seen plenty of works that get through by "novelty through obscurification" as well as flat out frauds. These are far from the majority of cases, but certainly we should recognize that the system has a pressure that encourages this behavior. Which what I'm getting at is that if you want to sit down and study a long term problem or want to research unpopular ideas and teach you probably aren't going to end up at a top university either. So question is how this factors in.
Overall I think the first point is really the most critical, but I think the others are worth considering. I'm sure some other people might have thoughts and I'm very open to hearing them. I think we can do a lot for academia by destroying this notion of prestige. At the end it matters what people can do, though unfortunately that is often hard to measure (otherwise hiring would be really easy and fast). But prestige is self-reinforcing as it makes those schools more likely to get recruitment, internship opportunities for their students, and grants.
I do really think there is a big opportunity for disruption in education. I do love remote and online education, but I still do not think it is a substitute for what can be done in person. But I think this disruption is much harder and requires a cultural shift. Assuming the premise is true. But some of that cultural shift can be things like taking interns from lower schools, because those networks need to be formed.
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#118> Help resources become inefficient - because so much material is restricted, and so much time is spent on delivering live lectures, there’d often be 40 students competing for help from 2 TAs in a 2-hour Office Hours I had the exact opposite problem when I was both a TA and later a professor. I would beg and plead for my students to come to office hours. "It's free one on one tutoring from the guy who writes the test…
My first year of grad school I had this problem and it made me immediately become disillusioned because the reality was so starkly different from what students wrote.
I worked in my office and would be there from 9am/10am till 10pm most days. I had an open door policy along with my scheduled office hours and 2 lab sections. I also frequently responded to emails at or after midnight. I wrote custom mini lectures for the lab sessions based on asking students (in those lab sessions) what were the things they were struggling on (and using what I ended up helping the most on + feedback from the good students that were always the "help sinks" where others would go to them for help). My own office mates complained at the end of the term (but not before. To be fair, I was usually the only one in the office (of 3) and the other two only started showing up more at the end of the term). YET I was student ranked as 2 standard deviations below the median for availability and one below my department.
I literally could not be more available! What's worse, is the department sent an email to me about how I should be more available. -__- What I learned is that these things don't mean anything about my performance. They were low ranked because the course was very hard. This is also a course I caught 2 junior CS students cheating and told the professor and I that they didn't know "GitHub" was on the internet (syllabus had a weird policy about not using the internet, but intended to basically mean don't copy GitHub or SO solutions). I had a hard time trying to not fall over laughing and I saw the prof's brain just break.
(Side note on that last part. We reported it to the department. They didn't care. It is because it makes the department look bad because the uni measures department rates of cheating by how many people are formally disciplined for cheating and so if you don't report it, you don't look like your department has a problem. We gave them a 0 on the assignment and said they'd fail if they did it again. They did anyways)
(I also had two students write that I was the best TA they've ever had and two students write that I was the worst. I learned a lot, that's for sure)
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#119> Help resources become inefficient - because so much material is restricted, and so much time is spent on delivering live lectures, there’d often be 40 students competing for help from 2 TAs in a 2-hour Office Hours I had the exact opposite problem when I was both a TA and later a professor. I would beg and plead for my students to come to office hours. "It's free one on one tutoring from the guy who writes the test…
I'm in 3rd year CS and I almost never go to office hours for my CS courses, because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. I go to lecture, don't understand the material, and then review my notes & the slides at home, working through the examples until I understand them. If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't un…
That's okay. Most TAs/professors will still help. Unfortunately some are assholes and if you get those, sorry. But the best way to deal with this is by asking them how to get started with a problem. Or to also ask about problems you've already solved. Here's some templated questions, modify for your specifics
I've been struggling solving this problem, can you help me get started? I tried {x,y,z} but that doesn't seem to work because {a,b,c}.
I solved this problem, but it took me longer than I think it should have. Can we walk through it together so I can see how you would approach it?
I'm having a hard time starting problems, not even knowing where to begin. Do you have any advice?
Can we do more problems in class?
I came from physics and am finishing up my PhD in CS, so the last one might not be as good except for stuff like algorithms. But one key piece of advice for the getting started problem is to do more problems.In physics, the first thing I'd always start with is a force diagram and writing down my knowns and unknowns. This way I could do a form of dimensional analysis and then I had to just figure out how to convert. I then took these skills to CS and found a similar avenue. Your professors saying to write pseudo code aren't just trying to get you to do more work. This is your map.
I take this same approach when I program. I write mostly in python so this works real well. I use vim and so will have one pane open to my file and another to an ipython terminal. I can test my logic in the terminal and write code side by side. So I try to write something quick first (think "write drunk, edit sober"). Then I start writing my function and I start by writing a small description and the arguments. As I'm writing this, I find my mind often finds edge cases that I can account for. A few minutes of back and forth, and I got a pretty good function. Essentially, I am using documentation as a rubber ducky or the Feynman Method[0].
I also highly suggest working with other students. There's a lot of good reasons for this. They'll see things in a different way than you, and one of the most important tools you can build is getting these different viewpoints/perspectives. Another is you're growing your network. These are very important for jobs. And probably most importantly, you need friends and a social life. If you're kicking yourself when you're down too much, you're gonna be slower at solving problems. Sometimes the best thing to do is get up, take a walk, and come back (that's the hard part).
Also, ask questions in class. Don't worry about what other students think. You're paying for the professor. In today's age you can probably find better lectures online. So get your money's worth and ask in class. Most professors actually will be happy because when lecturing we hate having just blank stares and silence. We all dread the "does this make sense?" question and the absolutely unconvincing murmur of "yeah". Make your time count. I know it can be hard to be engaged, but also asking questions will help with that. And absolutely do not be afraid to interrupt or ask them to slow down. You're paying way to much to just sit in an in-person YouTube lecture.
Re: Show HN: I made a cheap alternative to college-level math & physics tutoring
#120Are you trying to create a tutoring version of fiverr/upwork? If so, the economics doesn't seem to work. I think you are saying that you'll create a product, charge $10/wk to customers and, through volume, give the tutor approx. $100/hr. Fair enough, but I think you're overestimating how well tutoring scales - which is not well at all. If I'm a tutor, and I want to break even with my in-person rate, I need to satisfy…
Qualifications: I tutored math for about 10 years, I used to guarantee an A if you signed up with me, as long as it was still mathematically possible. I think the roles of teacher and tutor are being confused in the "scale up" approach. Teachers have presentations that allow a large number of people to cover the material, with specific goals, verified by observing the class through testing. A tutor covers the same gr…