Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
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Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#2Unsurprising. The pay sucks, hours are long, and the largest industry to hire postdocs (Biomedical) is going through a fairly severe recession that has impacted lab developers in Boston and SF as well.
Edit: My analysis of the second order effect is wrong.
From the article - "Much of the shift can be attributed to employment numbers in the biological and biomedical sciences, which saw a 3% drop in the total number of postdocs from 2021 to 2022 and a 10% drop in the number who were U.S. citizens and permanent residents. It’s not clear from the recent data release what’s driving the trends. But the declines coincide with a boom in hiring at biotech companies. And data from a separate survey released by NSF last year indicated fewer U.S. Ph.D. graduates in the life sciences are pursuing postdocs than ever before, with an increasing number heading to industry"
Basically, it looks like you don't need to have a postdoc anymore to work as a researcher in the Biotech industry now.
That said, PE/VC funding has dried up in Biotech compared to a couple years ago
Paying postdocs private sector hourly salaries will probably resolve the issue, but that effort needs to come from the NSF, NIH, DHHS, and other grantmakers.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#3No shit. Who wants to still be treated like a grad student after defending. I didn't even consider looking for a post doc, and I graduated more than 10 years ago. Stayed on as a staff scientist for about five years then went to industry.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#4In the replication crisis era it's a good thing I suppose.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#5> According to the latest data release, 62,750 postdocs were employed at U.S. institutions in the fall of 2022, a 1% drop compared with the year before. But the trend diverges sharply by citizenship. From 2021 to 2022, the number of U.S. citizens and permanent residents working as postdocs dropped from 29,755 to 27,289.
> The 8% change is the largest year-to-year percentage-wise drop in the history of the survey, which has collected data since 1980. Meanwhile, the number of postdocs with temporary visas increased by 6%, from 33,573 to 35,461, about the same number as in 2020.
It doesn't seem like a completely drastic drop but definitely not insignificant.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#6In the replication crisis era it's a good thing I suppose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
The researchers who would replicate studies would be postdocs themselves.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#7Postdocs are such a scam role. These are PHD educated scientists who have spent 4+ years on PHD getting paid like $50k-$70k/year with basically dead end jobs where they must leave to another place to get a tenure track role since they're already considered 2nd class at the institution the postdoc is at.
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#8Unsurprising. The pay sucks, hours are long, and the largest industry to hire postdocs (Biomedical) is going through a fairly severe recession that has impacted lab developers in Boston and SF as well. Edit: My analysis of the second order effect is wrong. From the article - "Much of the shift can be attributed to employment numbers in the biological and biomedical sciences, which saw a 3% drop in the total number of…
> Paying postdocs private sector hourly salaries will probably resolve the issue
What's the actual issue, though? Is there something bad that this effect is causing?
Re: Fewer U.S. scientists are pursuing postdoc positions, new data show
#9Unsurprising. The pay sucks, hours are long, and the largest industry to hire postdocs (Biomedical) is going through a fairly severe recession that has impacted lab developers in Boston and SF as well. Edit: My analysis of the second order effect is wrong. From the article - "Much of the shift can be attributed to employment numbers in the biological and biomedical sciences, which saw a 3% drop in the total number of…
> Paying postdocs private sector hourly salaries will probably resolve the issue What's the actual issue, though? Is there something bad that this effect is causing?
Salaries are basically limited to $50-70k a year with 50-60 hour workweeks.
If you did a PhD in Biochemistry, you could make $100-200k a year plus stock working 40-50 hours a week at most working for Pfizer in Cambridge MA instead of earning around $60k working 50-60 hours as a Postdoc at a regional Boston based program like BU or Northeastern - you have to pay the same amount for rent and groceries, but you earn half as much and work much longer hours.
At that point, the only reason to be a postdoc is to get your foot in the door if you went to a less recruited program or are from abroad.
For example, in the article - “My personal experience is that Americans were always less willing to put up with conditions that foreigners like myself had to put up with,” says McDowell, who moved from the United Kingdom to the United States for a postdoc in biomedicine.