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Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

reuters.com

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Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#701

Post by rstuart4133 »

oliwarner wrote: post #691
rstuart4133 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in no rush to show Zuck my passport I agree, but I think your problem isn't Zuck, it's with passports. Government issued licences aren't fit for purpose any more. They were when all you did with your paper drivers licence is show it to the police, but now they've become a form of ID you show man+dog who gets to scrape a whole pile of into from it that can be used to track you. For example, they can follow your…

> gets to scrape a whole pile of into from it that can be used to track you I can't help but feel your argument is with data protection [and the broad lack of it in the US] rather than government-held databases. I have a couple of online government authentication methods. There could easily be an AVS API where a website kicks me off to to my government, and they sign a request for age verification, all with very litt…

> I can't help but feel your argument is with data protection [and the broad lack of it in the US] rather than government-held databases.

It goes deeper than that. Recently in Australia we've had two data breaches, one from a Telco [0] and another from a credit card company [1]. Both were required to collect ID by law, so they gave you a portal to upload photos of drivers licences, government medical insurance cards, credit card and so on. In both cases they leaked the lot.

To say they were unpopular was an understatement. Perhaps 10% of Australia had to get new drivers licences. The were hauled up to front senate committees, CEO's fell on the sword. A lot of political theatre in other words, but while this "take a copy of a government licence as a form of ID" madness continues it will keep happening.

In other news, social hacks against the government electronic ID for their website were used to collect around 1/2 a billion in fraudulent payouts (tax refunds and the like) [2]. And a few years ago the tax office was done for $2B or so for ID fraud waged against our VAT collection. [3] That one was perpetrated by thousands; the instructions went viral on TikTok.

We live in a digital world now, where it's easy to take a copy of any bag of bits. Relying on ID's that don't mutually authenticate and vigorously protect the information they do hand out is downright dangerous.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Optus_data_breach

[1] https://asic.gov.au/about-asic/news-centre/news-items/guidan...

[2] https://theconversation.com/the-500-million-ato-fraud-highli...

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/13/ato-s...

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#702

Post by bananapub »

djohnston wrote: post #681
bananapub wrote: post #242

I do love the US Right's hilariously dishonest obsession with "free speech" and how the rest of the US engages with them as if it is some good faith disagreement. the Right should also be more worried - requiring the construction of this sort of Technological Autocracy Infrastructure should scare them, since presumably they won't always be in charge. of course the flip side is that a lot of the leaders are Christian…

> hope everyone agrees that not letting kids see what Rhianna had for lunch or whatever was worth it Better your kids than mine. If you think that’s what is happening on social media your children are screwed.

If you don’t want your kids to have access to social media, then you should definitely stop them. Don’t let them have a smart phone, put it in family mode, etc etc. Asking US states to build the infrastructure of a police state to stop your kids doing things you don’t want is … a ridiculous and dangerous overreaction.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#703

Post by willcipriano »

Nextgrid wrote: post #698
friend_and_foe wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I've felt that feeling. I'm not a teenager, but I can imagine the FOMO and loss of social clout a kid would feel not being connected in ways that their peers are. My solution was to not care if I was missing out. Counterintuitively, it's not until you do that that you're free to find the life you want for yourself. Good luck explaining that to a 16 year old though, they're not there yet, they're not building t…

Keep in mind that social media is pretty much the only outlet you have for social signalling as a teenager. Disconnecting from it at that age is social suicide. Disconnecting as an adult is much easier/worthwhile because you now have other means of signalling.

They don't hang out in real life like we used to. TicTok or whatever is the house in the neighborhood all the kids hung out at.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#704

Post by _mlbt »

willcipriano wrote: post #703
Nextgrid wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that social media is pretty much the only outlet you have for social signalling as a teenager. Disconnecting from it at that age is social suicide. Disconnecting as an adult is much easier/worthwhile because you now have other means of signalling.

They don't hang out in real life like we used to. TicTok or whatever is the house in the neighborhood all the kids hung out at.

That’s just incredibly dystopian and sad. I hope this is the start of a greater trend pushing back against social media. We’ve lost so much quality social interaction to apps. The mental health aspects of just stepping outside and making real personal human connections are huge.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#705

Post by _mlbt »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #658
gnicholas wrote: post #604

I recall hearing Professor Haidt (NYU) describe an experiment he ran with teenagers. He asked them how much they'd have to be paid (per month?) to not use some social media site. The typical answer was ~$40. Then he said that they were going to get all the other kids in the school off the social media site, and asked again what the student would want to be paid to be off the site. The answer was that students would a…

I know I've felt that feeling. I'm not a teenager, but I can imagine the FOMO and loss of social clout a kid would feel not being connected in ways that their peers are. My solution was to not care if I was missing out. Counterintuitively, it's not until you do that that you're free to find the life you want for yourself. Good luck explaining that to a 16 year old though, they're not there yet, they're not building t…

Your comment reminded me of one of the best books I’ve ever read… Mark Manson’s The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck. He talks about what he calls the “backwards law” which is about these counterintuitive truths like the one that you discovered.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#707

Post by autoexec »

idle_zealot wrote: post #694
autoexec wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet children have cell phones and use the internet right? Nothing (as far as I know) will stop a child from walking into a walmart and buying a pre-paid phone or a TV or a computer but all of those things will force you agree to their terms. How enforceable all of that is legally would be up to the courts, but that's true for social media sites too. If a 15 year old signs up for a social media site they're forced to…

> but if we enforce the law, then companies will have to stop taking advantage of children! That sounds pretty good. Maybe companies targeting their products and services at children shouldn't attempt to enter illegal contracts with them?

I'd be better to outlaw the data collection and exploitation than to tell kids they can't use cell phones or computers or social media and televisions. No need to limit that to just kids either.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#708

Post by everforward »

Clubber wrote: post #284
singleshot_ wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PruneYards was found not to be significantly harmed by the expressive activity, because the goal of the commercial activity is to sell stuff. But the goal of an online social media platform is to curate a coherent speech product, and allowing people to insert themselves unwanted into that product is a very significant imposition on the platform. Also no one lives or eats or breathes on Twitter so the notion that they…

>PruneYards was found not to be significantly harmed by the expressive activity, because the goal of the commercial activity is to sell stuff. But the goal of an online social media platform is to curate a coherent speech product, and allowing people to insert themselves unwanted into that product is a very significant imposition on the platform. That is true but unrelated to the DeSantis law. The social media compan…

Oh, apologies if ordering shifted. I was replying to another replier, but unable to do it on their actual post.

I'm not particularly rooting for this either. I am sympathetic that social media might be bad for kids, but this isn't the way

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#710

Post by GoblinSlayer »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #658
gnicholas wrote: post #604

I recall hearing Professor Haidt (NYU) describe an experiment he ran with teenagers. He asked them how much they'd have to be paid (per month?) to not use some social media site. The typical answer was ~$40. Then he said that they were going to get all the other kids in the school off the social media site, and asked again what the student would want to be paid to be off the site. The answer was that students would a…

I know I've felt that feeling. I'm not a teenager, but I can imagine the FOMO and loss of social clout a kid would feel not being connected in ways that their peers are. My solution was to not care if I was missing out. Counterintuitively, it's not until you do that that you're free to find the life you want for yourself. Good luck explaining that to a 16 year old though, they're not there yet, they're not building t…

When I was a child I used the argument "because others do it" and mom told me to not look at others and think for myself. I understood the idea just fine.
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