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Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

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Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#451

Post by Domenic_S »

nytesky wrote: post #416
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen close-up video where you can see the ship losing electrical power twice for not-insubstantial times as it approaches the column. I suspect that was a much larger factor in the collision than anything the crew may or may not have done. Warning time doesn't mean shit if you can't steer.

https://twitter.com/ChaudharyParvez/status/17725385394958090... Posted video of power loss. Also black smoke coming out rear — is that normal? Any clue of what onboard crisis they were dealing with?

seems like they should have turned left and tried to go under the middle section there instead of cranking all the way around right. I imagine they were under task saturation with the power outages though.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#452

Post by Diederich »

toss1 wrote: post #398
rpeden wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Port of Baltimore is a very major port, and not allowing ships under it really isn't an option. Vertical clearance for ship traffic might have been the reason this kind of bridge was built in the first place. Otherwise, something lower and more causeway-like might have been sufficient.

>>Because the Port of Baltimore is a very major port, and not allowing ships under it really isn't an option. It is now a very large port that is completely closed off from the sea. And two sides of the city no longer linked The damage from this accident is only beginning. Even if loss of control of a large container ship was considered in the design of the city, port, and that particular bridge, ships were not even…

> And, it lost power at almost exactly the worst moment. What are the odds?

I don't know, but I suspect we don't hear much about all the times power is lost at moments that are less than the worst.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#453

Post by lenerdenator »

paddy_m wrote: post #438

Youtube tracking analysis from a knowledgeable mariner. He says that at about 1:24 AM the ship loses power (from video feed) while traveling 8.5 knots. at 1:25.30 power is restored. at 12:25.59 the ship shows smoke. The ship has already drifted in the channel. It is believed that at this time the ship applied full reverse power as evidenced by the black smoke. (My analysis: the ship drifted but hasn't turned in the c…

How common are power outages on ships? I get that the captain might not have responded to it correctly but that seems like a thing that shouldn't happen, at least in my completely uneducated opinion.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#454

Post by sickofparadox »

boringg wrote: post #447
sickofparadox wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely that a lot of people don't understand just how huge these ships are. I'd imagine that much of HN doesn't have a ton of firsthand experience with shipping yards or even close friends/relatives that work on these things. In my experience, almost nothing hides just how large it is than a giant ship.

That's fair. If you don't live in a major port city you likely don't understand. Maybe we should reframe it to a more familiar territory. It could be the equivalent of a second tier unsophisticated, unsuspecting, dated website with a relatively small amount of traffic hitting it being hit by a state sponsored actor DDoS attack and expecting the website to survive.

I'm with you on this one, I grew up around boats and remember the dread of even getting near a containership in a 16 foot Boston Whaler. That fear was more primal and daunting than sailing home during a tornado watch.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#455

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

gonzo41 wrote: post #322
zztop44 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Hobart is tiny so this rarely happens and relatively few people are impacted when it does.

Seems like a fair few people are going to be impacted permanently in Baltimore because of this.

"Permanently" what? the harbor will be cleared, probably sooner than later, and there will be a new bridge/tunnel built in a few years. Like that's not permanent.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#456

Post by acdha »

xoa wrote: post #296
dathinab wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the links with the video now you can see that the container ship directly hits one of the two main (and in the central area only) pillars completely collapsing it. No matter(1) the engineering there is no pretty much way to not lose the whole large middle area and left area leading to the destroyed pillar in that situation. Such a collapse crates so much force (tension vibrations etc.) so that the collaps…

Just to put some numbers on this: The MV Dali (IMO#9697428) is a little over 95000 GT, or ballpark-ish probably around 114000 tons loaded (and it seems to have been loaded, which would make sense on departure). If it was going even 5kn (2.6 m/s) that'd be about 300 million newton-seconds, or about 3.3 times the momentum of a large jumbo jet like a 747 shortly at cruising speed (around 560 mph). It'd still have the sa…

According to https://gcaptain.com/ship-lost-control-before-hitting-baltim... they were going 7.6kn so your figures are “optimistic” by a factor of two. I really don’t know how much an engineer could have done to stop 600M N/s - that’s just an enormous amount of energy.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#457

Post by devilbunny »

jsumrall wrote: post #351

The design of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel, specifically the tunnel part, makes a lot of sense now. Imagine a US navy port (Norfolk) being inaccessible if this happened there.

The Navy has long required that the sea lanes from the Norfolk Naval Shipyard and Newport News Shipbuilding to the ocean have a deep-draft passage with no bridge, for just that reason.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#458

Post by apaprocki »

xoa wrote: post #296
dathinab wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the links with the video now you can see that the container ship directly hits one of the two main (and in the central area only) pillars completely collapsing it. No matter(1) the engineering there is no pretty much way to not lose the whole large middle area and left area leading to the destroyed pillar in that situation. Such a collapse crates so much force (tension vibrations etc.) so that the collaps…

Just to put some numbers on this: The MV Dali (IMO#9697428) is a little over 95000 GT, or ballpark-ish probably around 114000 tons loaded (and it seems to have been loaded, which would make sense on departure). If it was going even 5kn (2.6 m/s) that'd be about 300 million newton-seconds, or about 3.3 times the momentum of a large jumbo jet like a 747 shortly at cruising speed (around 560 mph). It'd still have the sa…

"current draft is 12.2m with 116851 t DWT" and last reported speed was 6.7kt.

Good estimation! :)

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#459

Post by ohyes »

MeridianSurfer wrote: post #27
ohyes wrote: post #22

Apparently there were two different key bridges, one across the Potomac, another across the Patapsco. This was the Patapsco one.

The other key bridge is not in Baltimore.

Yeah the original cnbc article was talking about the Potomac which isn’t near Baltimore, so I wanted to make sure no one else was as confused as I had been.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#460

Post by mindcrime »

millzlane wrote: post #158
jxdxbx wrote: post #136

Not that it matters to anyone else, but having driven across that bridge dozens of times with my kids, this is just shocking. It’s one of the main corridors in the area. Thank god it happened in the middle of the night, though that’ll be no consolation to the families of those who may have died.

Local to the area. This was devastating news to wake up to. I don't know what's wrong with me but seeing this and knowing there were casualties made me cry. Edit: Maybe I'm just tired and need more sleep.

Nothing wrong with crying. I cry sometimes. Heck, if I spend too much time thinking about the 343 firefighters who died on 9/11, it will still bring a tear to my eye even after all these years. It's just part of the human condition. Cherish it.
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