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HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

theregister.com

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Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#11

Post by mutatio »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

I get it, it feels like a regression to me too, but there is method to the madness, their MTD idea is that you don't just plop numbers into some boxes, that they are a product of accountancy software (so that they're accurate).

I've seen some tools bypass this and still allow you to input numbers manually but just via the vendor API.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#12

Post by psd1 »

ricardobayes wrote: post #9
londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

And this is still miles better than everything else out there. In Spain this is hopeless to do yourself, you _must_ have an accountant on retainer for even the simplest of stuff.

It's worse than that. My wife's sarl must file every quarter, in mind-boggling detail, and is mandated to have both labour and fiscal assessors. It took nearly a year to fire an employee who stole €6000 and maliciously crippled operations.

Don't ever operate in Spain.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#13

Post by Nextgrid »

jl6 wrote: post #10
londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

Looks like open source clients are available: https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat At least, in principle - no idea how well they work.

Edit, I am mistaken, see reply below.

---

The problem is not client availability, the problem is that the API itself is only available to approved vendors.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#14

Post by pyb »

I was one of the (presumably few) people who used the Linux version, until it stopped working for some reason, a few years ago. After that, I got used to booting into Windows one a month to run my little payroll.

TBH, I don't think they should be spending resources on this port.

PS : hi Liam, we met at Fosdem a few weeks ago!

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#15

Post by niklasrde »

londons_explore wrote: post #5
jlokier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to update, though not automatically. New versions are required to handle changes to the PAYE tax rules, which have changed every few months recently. There was a change announced this month which takes effect next month. If you don't use the updated version, you'll calculate and pay the wrong monthly tax to yourself and your employees.

Which is a stupid design of software... In 2024, tax software ought not to have the tax rules hardcoded, but instead ask the tax authority for a fresh set of rules at startup every time, and alert the user if the rules database ever gets more than 30 days out of date. Nearly every government makes tax rule changes every year - it just isn't reasonable to hardcode them and require the user buy/install new software eve…

So updating the rules is not the same as updating the software? Who says this is different here? How do you define the difference between a "tax rule" and business logic?

The changes go beyond tax band thresholds and percentages across NIC & IT. Eg the (now-scrapped) Health & Social Care Levy would've been a completely new tax - you need a complex schema to encode that and even then the Treasury will come up with something you haven't thought of next.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#16

Post by jl6 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #13
jl6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like open source clients are available: https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat At least, in principle - no idea how well they work.

Edit, I am mistaken, see reply below. --- The problem is not client availability, the problem is that the API itself is only available to approved vendors.

Certainly for most businesses it will be more convenient to just use the built-in functionality of the accounting software that they almost certainly already use, but for those who really want to do it themselves, there is a process (described in the README of the Gnucash client) for getting credentials.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#18

Post by Shrezzing »

londons_explore wrote: post #6
jlokier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to update, though not automatically. New versions are required to handle changes to the PAYE tax rules, which have changed every few months recently. There was a change announced this month which takes effect next month. If you don't use the updated version, you'll calculate and pay the wrong monthly tax to yourself and your employees.

I'm really surprised the software isn't simply a fully online webapp... This is designed for small employers - they want something easy like a website, not specialist software they need to install with a database that must be backed up manually. For those businesses with extreme corner cases ("we don't have internet", "we only pay employees on the full moon", etc), let them continue to use the old paper forms.

I think pretty much 100% of companies just use the online portals provided by the tax software vendors. Companies without direct access to the internet just file their VAT via their accountant, or manually file them through physical mail.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#19

Post by sofixa »

ricardobayes wrote: post #9
londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

And this is still miles better than everything else out there. In Spain this is hopeless to do yourself, you _must_ have an accountant on retainer for even the simplest of stuff.

I've only been a private individual and an auto-entrepreneur (mini-company) in France, but as far as I know everything is fully digital on publicly available websites that anyone can create an account on and submit the necessary information.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#20

Post by spaniard89277 »

ricardobayes wrote: post #9
londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

And this is still miles better than everything else out there. In Spain this is hopeless to do yourself, you _must_ have an accountant on retainer for even the simplest of stuff.

Spain is a lost cause in so many regards...
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